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progress update - avorion development stopped, no updates posted?


max2veg
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well, the title says it all. it's been over a month since the last update post on steam (actually, last one was 11-22-21, so almost 2.5 months ago), with a lot of bugs that have been reported, not to mention gameplay broken, with the new gameplay "forced upon" the player, which removed a lot of the amazing gameplay mechanisms from version 1.x - what gives?

the issues is that the devs think they should rework game mechanics that worked before (although with bugs and still lacking) without consulting their community first - aka "we know better" mentality, which has rarely worked in favor of a game's reputation and the people / company behind it.

maybe this "radio silence" is for the reason of a rework of those issues? but a bit of feedback would still be much appreciated...

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Yeah sad to say but I think this game is just about dead. 2.0 didn't boost player count very much, and it's already back down near the pre-2.0 numbers. More people were playing during the 2.0 beta than played when actual 2.0 dropped. Same thing happened with Black Market DLC, a quick boost in player count, and very quickly back down to pre-update numbers. I think they were hoping 2.0 would jumpstart the community and start bringing new people in, but it seems like it's mostly the same players as before and they're mostly complaining about the changes.

I imagine the radio silence is because the dev team is probably debating how, or even if, they can move forward. Without an influx of new players ($$), there is no reason for them to continue developing the game.

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I'm also dying to know what's going on.

It's certainly true that they probably have to find out how to generate enough cash flow to keep the lights on and people paid but I don't really agree with most of the rest.

First of all, I don't think you can call any single player game (and that's what Avorion mostly is) "dead" - as long as it is a finished product. I really hate how service games have somehow lead people to believe that any game you buy once should indefinetly receive updates. Avorion is a complete game. Yes, there might be still some bugs and It would be cool if many of its aspects were more fleshed out. But still, it's a complete game.

Second, I actually don't really mind the changes in Avorion 2.0. I don't want or intend to (again) discuss the pros and cons of Avorion 2.0, I just don't think that players with a strong sentiment against it are in the majority.

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On 2/10/2022 at 7:14 AM, Mesirez said:

It's certainly true that they probably have to find out how to generate enough cash flow to keep the lights on and people paid but I don't really agree with most of the rest.

Well, it shouldn't take 2 months to figure out how to generate more cash. It's actually straightforward:

1. Fix the issues most players are having with, increasing its minor version (2.x); also and continuing doing so, keep fixing bugs. 

2. Create new DLC.

It will have to be in that order, but only initially, once the core issues the community is upset about are taken care of, then the other issues and bugs can be fixed while working on a new DLC. Even just making the community happy(ier) will bring more money in, because Avorion is a great PvE group game, though still is badly lacking in PvP.

On 2/10/2022 at 7:14 AM, Mesirez said:

First of all, I don't think you can call any single player game (and that's what Avorion mostly is) "dead" - as long as it is a finished product. I really hate how service games have somehow lead people to believe that any game you buy once should indefinetly receive updates. Avorion is a complete game. Yes, there might be still some bugs and It would be cool if many of its aspects were more fleshed out. But still, it's a complete game.

Yes, you can call a SP game "dead" - and Avorion is not "mostly" a SP game, it's SP and MP to equal parts, although as I mentioned, PvP is pretty much dead, even though there are a lot of PvP servers out there, but most of them are being played PvE, for a number of reasons (and has very much to do with some of the major issues of 2.x, which have been extensively reported to the devs - and there's hope that's the reason for the radio silence, because they're revamping that, and it's not just one thing, but impacts most of the 2.x gameplay).

On 2/10/2022 at 7:14 AM, Mesirez said:

Second, I actually don't really mind the changes in Avorion 2.0. I don't want or intend to (again) discuss the pros and cons of Avorion 2.0, I just don't think that players with a strong sentiment against it are in the majority.

I've got to burst your bubble, because that's where you're wrong - if you'd seen the onslaught of criticism posted on their Discord shortly after 2.x launch, you'd know... but either way, there are some major issues with 2.x, from gameplay to AI and gameplay bugs there are plaguing the game - which is why the dev's radio silence is being taken as the game being "dead". However, I surely hope that they're just pulling a bit of a NMS here, where they just concentrate on revamping 2.x and getting things to a point where the majority of the community's complaints are being addressed.

PS: They might very well work on 3.0, considering that all the changes they have to implement to "fix" what the community complaints about with 2.x will require a massive re-write (not just in code, but also game mechanics / gameplay) - at least so I hope.

Edited by max2veg
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I think, your and my posts simply proof that players have different expections, so it's kind of pointless to discuss.

I really think that you are the one in a bubble not my. I playing Avorion casually. You obviously seem to be in the "Hardcore Avorion player"-bubble.

Admitedly, I'm not on Discord but from my observation it's only the hardcore base (which are probably the same people that are on Discurd, thus the onslaught) that is so adamantly against the changes of 2.0. Just look at the Steam Reviews: Avorion is still rated "very positive". So 2.0 can't really have fucked up the game as much as you claim. Skimming through the reviews proves this. Virtually none of the recent bad reviews relate to the changes made in 2.0. And if you find bad reviews relating to 2.0, that's usually from players with 100s or 1000s of hours playtime. To me, that looks like a very loud minority.

Yes, it sucks to upset a part of your core community but I think that's people how simply played so much Avorion, that they have a very narrow vision of how Avorion should be and every deviation from this is unacceptable for them.

Also, technically you are right, you can call a single player game "dead". But you can also call cats "airplanes". You can call anything anything. It just doesn't mean it makes sense. Or at least elaborate how you define "dead". A "dead" game is for me an unfinished game. Avorion is not.

Also, Avorion is certainly not equal parts SP and MP. And most certainly not PvP. That's the true problem of Avorion: It allows you so many different things to do, many of its players have different visions how all of these things should work.

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On 2/17/2022 at 9:08 PM, MajorSpacer said:

I bought six versions after Steam Holiday Sale and a few friends purchased copies. All of us are post-2.0 buyers and we enjoy the game. Some minor issues and bugs so far, but nothing making the game unplayable or unenjoyable.

You (and friends) should play the pre-2.0 update, then you'll see what all was removed in 2.x - a lot was added in 2.x, but most that was removed, and even some that was changed in 2.x, was unnecessary and made the game a lot less management and a lot more micro-management heavy, which some might like, but most pre-2.0 players, such as myself, do not. Again, you don't know what you miss out on, until you have experienced the functionality of the previous version. 

 

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On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

I think, your and my posts simply proof that players have different expections, so it's kind of pointless to discuss.

Yes, but no, it's not pointless to discuss, if considering the other's expectations. I am considering those of SPs such as yours, as such, I agree to some points.

On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

I really think that you are the one in a bubble not my. I playing Avorion casually. You obviously seem to be in the "Hardcore Avorion player"-bubble.

Well, if I'm in a "bubble", so are you - which is, in the "casual Avorion SP player" bubble. There's also the "hardcore Avorion SP players", and they also agree on a lot of things, because most (all? I don't remember) of mine and those that have similar / same concerns, relate to core gameplay, which a lot has been taken away - not to mention some of it has not been implemented that was promised - from the 1.x version (in particular "chaining of commands"), which just can't be done anymore with the new "map commands / missions", but the dev(s) outright just removed the option to be able to send ships / fleets on non-missions, but rather fulfill a chain of commands (ie. "fly to x/y, mine, fly to x/y, mine, fly to x/y, mine, loop this chain of commands; or especially when it comes to trading: fly x/y, buy commodities, fly to x/y, sell commodities, loop this chain of commands; or any other command and any mix of those).

On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

Admitedly, I'm not on Discord but from my observation it's only the hardcore base (which are probably the same people that are on Discurd, thus the onslaught) that is so adamantly against the changes of 2.0. Just look at the Steam Reviews: Avorion is still rated "very positive". So 2.0 can't really have fucked up the game as much as you claim. Skimming through the reviews proves this. Virtually none of the recent bad reviews relate to the changes made in 2.0. And if you find bad reviews relating to 2.0, that's usually from players with 100s or 1000s of hours playtime. To me, that looks like a very loud minority.

Those are new players or very inexperienced (low amount of hours of actual gameplay) ones - anyone who played 1.x extensively felt like a kick to the ballz because of what's been taken away, and what's been added is not a substitution for that, plus some overall gameplay is buggy (fighters specifically - I didn't even realize that until a buddy of mine pointed that out, and I was able to reproduce that) and the aforementioned missing content - you might want to check past Avorion update announcements on Steam since the first 2.0 was advertised, you should be able to discern what's missing - if not, then I can't help you other than suggest to read more carefully. Also, my other advice is to play the latest 1.x version, if you truly care to understand vs. if you don't and you just want to be right.

On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

Yes, it sucks to upset a part of your core community but I think that's people how simply played so much Avorion, that they have a very narrow vision of how Avorion should be and every deviation from this is unacceptable for them.

I already refuted your argument, see above - AKA missing content and buggy implementation that breaks mid-to-late gameplay (that's also for SP btw, not just MP, in case I wasn't clear about that).

On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

Also, technically you are right, you can call a single player game "dead". But you can also call cats "airplanes". You can call anything anything. It just doesn't mean it makes sense. Or at least elaborate how you define "dead". A "dead" game is for me an unfinished game. Avorion is not.

See above, so unfortunately you are incorrect, Avorion is unfinished, you don't even have to be a "hardcore player" but just bother to progress further into the game and explore tactical options a bit further (not even to their fullest, which you can't anymore in 2.x anyhow).

On 2/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mesirez said:

Also, Avorion is certainly not equal parts SP and MP. And most certainly not PvP. That's the true problem of Avorion: It allows you so many different things to do, many of its players have different visions how all of these things should work.

Uh yes, it is equal parts SP and MP, especially considering:

1. Avorion can't be played without launching a server component - which means, it's a local MP game with 1 player slot... which can thus very easily be converted to MP.

2. Boxelware has even declared official(!) MP public servers.

3. All SP content, especially considering of my first point, is included in MP, so essentially there is no different between SP and MP gameplay or content - in fact, the only diff is PVP and PVE, where in PVP there's player-to-player damage (unless you're in an inhabited sector), which you can only play in a MP session (obviously), so strictly speaking, Avorion has with this addition change more MP content (game functionality, really) than SP.

You might really want to do a bit more research before coming up with argumentation... unless you don't care to be put into your place, so to speak.

And yes, Avorion can be played in a few different ways ("different visions how all of those things should work", as you wrote), but that does not change any of the issues that plague Avorion in its current state and thus demands at least a QOL update - or if Boxelware really cares and heck, even wants to capitalize on additional DLCs, a version 3.0, to make this truly the gem of a game that Avorion could be.

 

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