Container fields should be salvagable

[Mr. Waffles]

I put some r-salvage turrets on one of my miners and when I set it to Salvage, Jump, Refine, Jump (back), Loop, it said, "there are not wreckage's to salvage". I did it manually and was able to salvage some containers fine. I almost feel like this is a bug. It seems so obvious these should be salvageable. I don't even care about the quantity of resources I get, I just want to reduce the load times into that sector as I have some stations in there that I go in and out of, and it takes significantly longer to load in because of these fields. They look cool and they're creative, don't get me wrong, but I should be allowed to remove them with an automated r-salvager.

[MoreChainguns!]

This is a legitimate concern- however, I believe the way the salvaging system works is… well.. Ships can only salvage objects that are dead. Containers in container fields are most definitely not dead.

If you really want to clear container fields, I suggest constructing a ship that has a gigantic scoop on the front, scoop up all the containers, and then take another ship and shoot at them when they’re all together in one place and up against the big scoop; that way, they won’t spin away.

If you don’t have the resources to build a giant scoop, get a turret (preferably a laser turret) with Independent Targeting, then tell it to ‘Attack Target’ and select each container, one after the other.

 

[Mr. Waffles]

On 6/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, MoreChainguns! said:

This is a legitimate concern- however, I believe the way the salvaging system works is… well.. Ships can only salvage objects that are dead. Containers in container fields are most definitely not dead.

If you really want to clear container fields, I suggest constructing a ship that has a gigantic scoop on the front, scoop up all the containers, and then take another ship and shoot at them when they’re all together in one place and up against the big scoop; that way, they won’t spin away.

If you don’t have the resources to build a giant scoop, get a turret (preferably a laser turret) with Independent Targeting, then tell it to ‘Attack Target’ and select each container, one after the other.

How are container fields not dead? You can salvage them manually. How is that any different?

[MoreChainguns!]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:58 AM, Mr. Waffles said:

How are container fields not dead? You can salvage them manually. How is that any different?

You can distinguish whether or not something is 'dead' by what shows up in its profile when you select it with middle mouse button. Each container in container fields will have a faction name as it's 'owner'; salvageable wrecks and the like will be labeled simply as 'wreck'.

Sure, you can manually salvage them, but... salvage lasers (or any lasers, for that matter) work and do damage to anything, living or dead.

The only difference is that a hunk of inactive metal doesn't care about being salvaged, and an active, crewed ship does.

[Mr. Waffles]

On 6/19/2021 at 2:57 PM, MoreChainguns! said:

You can distinguish whether or not something is 'dead' by what shows up in its profile when you select it with middle mouse button. Each container in container fields will have a faction name as it's 'owner'; salvageable wrecks and the like will be labeled simply as 'wreck'.

Sure, you can manually salvage them, but... salvage lasers (or any lasers, for that matter) work and do damage to anything, living or dead.

The only difference is that a hunk of inactive metal doesn't care about being salvaged, and an active, crewed ship does.

So then a simple solution would be to remove the faction from the containers. Then it would be dead and thus, salvageable.

However it needs to be done, it should be done because is there no benefit to containers not being able to be salvageable.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Mr. Waffles

[An Ning]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:58 AM, Mr. Waffles said:

How are container fields not dead? You can salvage them manually. How is that any different?

The key word there is "manually".

You can use salvage turrets offensively, if you want, as long as you do it manually. Heck, manually you can use them on an asteroid (I don't know why you would, but you could).

 

Containers are not wrecks. They are containers. Your crews do not detect wreckage, as the containers are containers,  not wreckage.

 

I kinda wish container fields did more/had more function, and hopefully they will, but they don't need to be salvageable, because you don't salvage something that is fully working as intended (partly because it's working as intended, so taking it apart to fix something else doesn't make much sense, and partly because, as it is still intact, it is private property in use by someone else, and taking it apart for yourself would be a criminal act akin to piracy)

Edited June 23, 2021 by An Ning

[Mr. Waffles]

On 6/23/2021 at 2:41 PM, An Ning said:

The key word there is "manually".

You can use salvage turrets offensively, if you want, as long as you do it manually. Heck, manually you can use them on an asteroid (I don't know why you would, but you could).

 

Containers are not wrecks. They are containers. Your crews do not detect wreckage, as the containers are containers,  not wreckage.

 

I kinda wish container fields did more/had more function, and hopefully they will, but they don't need to be salvageable, because you don't salvage something that is fully working as intended (partly because it's working as intended, so taking it apart to fix something else doesn't make much sense, and partly because, as it is still intact, it is private property in use by someone else, and taking it apart for yourself would be a criminal act akin to piracy)

Just because something is working as intended doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed.

Please read the entire conversation that addresses the problems with container fields and my most recent comment that provides a solution.

[FuryoftheStars]

I think container fields do have a purpose, but I think you need the DLC for them.

[An Ning]

On 6/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, Mr. Waffles said:

Just because something is working as intended doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed.

Please read the entire conversation that addresses the problems with container fields and my most recent comment that provides a solution.

Just because you have an issue with something doesn't mean it SHOULD be changed.
Making intact structures and vessels salvageable would be too problematic, as then you'd have salvage craft starting wars because they'd be salvaging ships and stations with crews in them, or structures that are intact and owned by another faction.

Container fields have purposes. If you don't like the field being there, go destroy it, then salvage the wreckage.
Do container fields slow a system loading? Yeah. Is it irritating? Yeah (though way less so than when you jump into a scrap system). Does that mean containers should be removed or that intact vehicles should be made salvageable? No. Sorry.

[Mr. Waffles]

22 hours ago, An Ning said:

Just because you have an issue with something doesn't mean it SHOULD be changed.
Making intact structures and vessels salvageable would be too problematic, as then you'd have salvage craft starting wars because they'd be salvaging ships and stations with crews in them, or structures that are intact and owned by another faction.

Container fields have purposes. If you don't like the field being there, go destroy it, then salvage the wreckage.
Do container fields slow a system loading? Yeah. Is it irritating? Yeah (though way less so than when you jump into a scrap system). Does that mean containers should be removed or that intact vehicles should be made salvageable? No. Sorry.

I never said that vessels with crew in them should be salvaged. I’m only talking about containers. Containers don’t have any crew.

Not all containers even have factions attached to them.

It’s clear that you agree there are several cons to containers not being salvageable, which appears to outweigh the pros.
 

I’m not saying it’s required for it to be changed, I’m saying it doesn’t make much sense for it not to be changed. And based on both of your responses, it seems like you’re just making excuses for lazy coding.
 

I still feel like my solution is a simple fix and would make the game better.

[FuryoftheStars]

No, the solution is to simply remove them from the game unless you have the DLC (if indeed that is the only way for them to have a purpose), not make them salvageable.

[Mr. Waffles]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:35 PM, FuryoftheStars said:

No, the solution is to simply remove them from the game unless you have the DLC (if indeed that is the only way for them to have a purpose), not make them salvageable.

I think that’s a slightly oversimplified solution. I think we can meet in the middle on this by still keeping containers fields in the game while allowing players the option to salvage them or not. Sounds like a win win to me.

[FuryoftheStars]

Well, that’s assuming that the change you want isn’t really involved with coding changes. Marking something as salvageable may be as easy as setting a flag, or it could be as difficult as rewriting the entity type logic.

 

But on that note, it’s possible these do have a purpose without the dlc. I don’t own the dlc, yet I see info tips on the loading screens referring to these fields of containers and how sometimes you can find a secured one. *shrug*

[Mr. Waffles]

Yeah it really comes down to whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. I just thought I’d suggest it because it sounds like a nice addition.

[MoreChainguns!]

9 hours ago, Mr. Waffles said:

Yeah it really comes down to whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. I just thought I’d suggest it because it sounds like a nice addition.

I suppose it does.... But there are plenty of other things to salvage (i.e. enemy ships you destroyed) or enemy stations after a raiding expedition.