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maxdax5

More balancing weapons

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Hi! First of all, thx for all those amaising updates!

 

I want to talk about balancing some more the weapons as i think there is still a big flaw. For every weapons i will first say what is their problems and then what its purpose is in the game.

 

Chaingun: I think its the most balanced weapon and does exactly what it should do. Slow projectile and short range but good DPS. Powerful in close range. NEXT!

 

Laser: Like chainguns, lasers are pretty much balanced. Instant long range shooting but takes energy and DPS is medium. Good for anything close to long range. Follow me on the next line

 

CANNON: I hate how much they are bad and how much i want them. They need to have more punch and a faster projectile. I understand the projectile speed is the same as the chaingun so you can combo them but it dont work that way. A cannon should also make a more satisfying sound than: "ffiiioooouuut". Damage should be boosted by at least 60% or AOE (Area Of Effect) should be added. Projectile speed should be arround 100%+ more to achieve long range shot. At the moment a cannon is: Bad dps/dpm, overheat for more fun, 30km of fun range that takes like 15 sec to achieve... Fffiiooooouuuutt!

 

Plasma: Why they always cost so much? Plasma magic! They are great weapon to destroy shields at short-mid range and medium damage to hull. Takes energy to fire.

 

Pulse: Why... I kinda guess its op vs other players that dont cover their main components but thats it. Other than that its decorative. Useless. Using it vs npc is like using a water bubble gun. Damage should get boosted OR it should have same stats as a chaingun but with overheat. Shooting 80% of the time through shield is ok but not at the cost of 90% of the DPS of "other" weapons. 75-95% chance ignoring shields,  super low DPS, short range. ps: personal taste... They look great!

 

Launcher: Those are... Special. Its the worst but yet the best. Why super slow projectile combo with 30km range? The guy is not even in the same galaxy anymore! It also overheat and dont do that much damage too! *Slap on my cheek* When made or a ?rarer?  rarity combined with seeker!! Now you might have something! Maybe. When you finally one that is good with seeking missile, i feel like its more for support that DPSing. Overheat is long to cool for not so much damage. Cooling should be 30% less || Damage should pack more push.  + When not seeking, missile speed should be 200% faster. (2250m/s) Super slow projectile (750m/s), medium DPS but overheat so DPM is bad, super long range but 30km at 750m/s is 40 SECONDS! Even 7.5km is 10 sec! At the end of the day, SOME can have seeking missile and can give a good push in you enemy face.

 

Lightning: Great and balanced weapon. Instant long range shooting lightning strike at your shield destroying it but will do much less damage to your hull. Its also not that accurate at long range but still. Takes energy to fire. Wont do nothing on stone.

 

Tesla: The gun that says no to your shield but in exchange of energy and range! It has it short range and for good reasons! Shield is energy so energy cant melt but this puppy will make it melt! PS: Prepare extra batterie billy!

 

BOLTER: *Face palm* Why isnt it same as the plasma? Why its always cheap? The bolter is the plasma but for hull instead of shield and its the complete opposite. It never cost a lot to make (plasma is always millions), its dps to hull is ok (but has overheat so DPM is sheet(plasma dont)), tho it have mid/long range. Its damage should be 40% more with a 50% less cooling time. Having bolter feel like you never shoot and when it does, it dont feel like its powerful for that short time.

 

Railgun: Now THAT is a ship destroyer! It is so well thought. Instant super long range shooting and deal lots of damage if not extreme damage due to penetrating shot. Say it has 9 block of penetration with 10,000dmg then its going to do 10k on shield but landing good shot that will travel trough 9 blocks will do 90k damage BUT! If it touch an armored hull it will stop the shot.

 

Point chaingun: Nothing to say. Its perfect except for the ai turret shooting on ally.

 

Force, Repair, Point laser, Flack. Those 4 turret i havnt used a lot but i am planning on trying them soon.

 

Extra message: Good job for the mining update! It really feels better and like you actually do something. It also put more to use the AI ships (except telling them to rafine more than 5 min of rafining cause the station will just push him away and he wont be able to collect it back).

 

Steam user: Maxdax5

Have a nice day my fookers! :)

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Hi! First of all, thx for all those amaising updates!

 

I want to talk about balancing some more the weapons as i think there is still a big flaw. For every weapons i will first say what is their problems and then what its purpose is in the game.

 

I agree.

 

Chaingun: I think its the most balanced weapon and does exactly what it should do. Slow projectile and short range but good DPS. Powerful in close range. NEXT!

Laser: Like chainguns, lasers are pretty much balanced. Instant long range shooting but takes energy and DPS is medium. Good for anything close to long range. Follow me on the next line

 

I agree, even tho I feel like there could be more difference between Chainguns and bolters.

 

Laser: Like chainguns, lasers are pretty much balanced. Instant long range shooting but takes energy and DPS is medium. Good for anything close to long range. Follow me on the next line

 

I would agree, but: We want some MOTHA FUCKIN BEAM CANNONS in this game. There should be coaxial lasers with super high range, damage, energy consumption and mabye a charge time that we can use to obliterate things an feel cool!

 

CANNON: I hate how much they are bad and how much i want them. They need to have more punch and a faster projectile. I understand the projectile speed is the same as the chaingun so you can combo them but it dont work that way. A cannon should also make a more satisfying sound than: "ffiiioooouuut". Damage should be boosted by at least 60% or AOE (Area Of Effect) should be added. Projectile speed should be arround 100%+ more to achieve long range shot. At the moment a cannon is: Bad dps/dpm, overheat for more fun, 30km of fun range that takes like 15 sec to achieve... Fffiiooooouuuutt!

 

I would love to see the AoE-thing you suggested, also travel speed should be a little higher... and something like a camera block to aim properly would be nice as well.

 

Pulse: Why... I kinda guess its op vs other players that dont cover their main components but thats it. Other than that its decorative. Useless. Using it vs npc is like using a water bubble gun. Damage should get boosted OR it should have same stats as a chaingun but with overheat. Shooting 80% of the time through shield is ok but not at the cost of 90% of the DPS of "other" weapons. 75-95% chance ignoring shields,  super low DPS, short range. ps: personal taste... They look great!

 

[glow=red,2,300]This shitty trash weapon![/glow] I would love to use it, but it is so bad!

Give it some Ion-cannonish function, make engine boosting (the spacebar thing) and hyperspace jumping impossible for let's say 2 to 5 seconds after being hit by this thing and it would be super great!

 

Launcher: Those are... Special. Its the worst but yet the best. Why super slow projectile combo with 30km range? The guy is not even in the same galaxy anymore! It also overheat and dont do that much damage too! *Slap on my cheek* When made or a ?rarer?  rarity combined with seeker!! Now you might have something! Maybe. When you finally one that is good with seeking missile, i feel like its more for support that DPSing. Overheat is long to cool for not so much damage. Cooling should be 30% less || Damage should pack more push.  + When not seeking, missile speed should be 200% faster. (2250m/s) Super slow projectile (750m/s), medium DPS but overheat so DPM is bad, super long range but 30km at 750m/s is 40 SECONDS! Even 7.5km is 10 sec! At the end of the day, SOME can have seeking missile and can give a good push in you enemy face.

 

I love using (seeking) launchers, the damage is not too bad and the seeking function is great if combined with big range. Honestly i think these have one weak point which makes about every launcher i pick up completely useless.

Remove non-seeking launchers from the game please! Nobody uses them! Their only use is selling them.

 

BOLTER: *Face palm* Why isnt it same as the plasma? Why its always cheap? The bolter is the plasma but for hull instead of shield and its the complete opposite. It never cost a lot to make (plasma is always millions), its dps to hull is ok (but has overheat so DPM is sheet(plasma dont)), tho it have mid/long range. Its damage should be 40% more with a 50% less cooling time. Having bolter feel like you never shoot and when it does, it dont feel like its powerful for that short time.

 

As said previously, I really dont recognize the difference between chainguns and bolters while playing. Of course they are different in terms of numbers, but I does not feel like that when I use both of them in game.  That might be the case because I am not using bolters only on my ship, but why would anyone do that? Also it might be like this due to the fact that there are better weapon types aviable when you would actually feel the difference (=when shields become a thing).

 

Railgun: Now THAT is a ship destroyer! It is so well thought. Instant super long range shooting and deal lots of damage if not extreme damage due to penetrating shot. Say it has 9 block of penetration with 10,000dmg then its going to do 10k on shield but landing good shot that will travel trough 9 blocks will do 90k damage BUT! If it touch an armored hull it will stop the shot.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love railguns! But mabye they should be coaxial weapons only. I feel like this would suit them better, but its just a personal oppinion.

 

 

 

Now about flack: Try them out mate, those are great!

 

Force turrets: These need to be more powerfull in early game stages and get a lot more range. Image a tesla ship that could pull enemies in or a ship that shoots asteroids towards your enemies! With such changes these guys might be usefull. At the moment I keep being disappointed everytime I try them out again.

 

Repair turrets: Those are great, BUT: repair fighters need to be able to target their mothership (At least when I tried it out the last time, i didnt work and I was really disappointed!

 

Point laser: Uhm... Useless? It looks different from a pdc but does the same. It has the same use, but yeah... I only use it for cosmetic reasons.

 

 

 

These are my thoughts, I hope it is helpfull to inspire the devs to something great! :)

 

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Thinking twice about the railguns. Maybe a small debuff should be in our mind. Slower rate of fire and nothing more. keep the same cooling time and the same shot fired until heating. Railgun can unload devastating power on about anything that is hull and that at up to 20-30km! 30% less rate of fire at least would make them good to go i think.

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Chaingun: Should have less maximum range. Should ignore shields altogether.

 

Bolter: Should have greater overall DPS, that is countered by Armor (reduced damage against Armor blocks).

 

Cannon: Should have lower range, but greater DPS. Already have AoE effect.

 

Railgun: Power Drain per shot must be extreme, requiring batteries to use effectively. Should be a high-velocity projectile weapon. Magnetic acceleration doesn't make it an energy weapon. Penetration mechanic MUST NOT multiply DPS.

 

Laser: Power Drain should be constant, but higher. Lasers should range from Red to Blue frequency. Higher frequency lasers get greater range, shorter firing phases with longer cooldown and massive increase in burst damage, but with greater power demands.

 

Plasma: Power Drain should be constant, but higher. Damage should diminish over range.

 

Pulse: Power Drain should be constant, but higher. Should be mechanically similar to Cannons, but with the same penetration mechanic. Each shot that penetrates shield should cause stacking debuff, that increases the damage of all weapons against target's shields. This together with the Cannon behavior mechanics will make each penetrating shot matter.

 

Missile: Should be revamped as a heavy short-range weapon. Missiles would accelerate over time and produce unmatched AoE effect. Shorter range would reduce the amount of lag that is produced by tracking and particle effects. Can feature multiple warhead types, that cause temporary debuffs against different stats of the target such as power generation, maneuverability, thrust or cause crew casualties.

Either way, can be redesigned in dozens of different ways, but as it is now they're unusable and too performance-intensive.

 

Lightning: Power Drain should be constant, but ridiculously massive relative to other weapons, unbearable for small ships. Should be renamed into Ion Beam and inherit current Railgun projectile. When used against unshielded targets, also diminishes their power generation down to maximum 50% (debuff itself is flat and applied relative to weapon's damage).

 

Tesla: Power Drain should be constant, but higher. Should be much less accurate with more sporadic arc that resembles the accuracy rating. When used against unshielded targets, drains their energy directly from batteries.

 

Force: Should be charged via holding the fire, filling the overheat bar. When released, sends a force in a large pulse (the longer you hold, the greater the pulse). Should be more powerful overall, but require more power. Can deal damage to target's Hull with no effect on the separate blocks.

 

Salvage: Should work more like a Flak turret, by firing a special cartridge projectile, that explodes on target's range with AoE effect and releases materials as fraction of all blocks destroyed by the given AoE, instead of individual blocks. That will make it easier to salvage extremely small blocks, allow to collect resources even from them, and visually differentiate Salvage from Mining, that can be mis-identified to the player's detriment. Also more sensible as situational anti-ship weapon.

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Everyone can of course have their own opinion, I find the different ideas on pulse cannons especially interesting. But at one point I need to contradict:

 

Railgun: [...] Penetration mechanic MUST NOT multiply DPS.

 

Railguns are designed as an anti-capital weapon. The multiplication of damage makes them specifically great against big targets. If the mechanic is OP, their overall damage should be nerfed, instead of the removal of something that makes them unique.

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Everyone can of course have their own opinion, I find the different ideas on pulse cannons especially interesting. But at one point I need to contradict:

 

Railgun: [...] Penetration mechanic MUST NOT multiply DPS.

 

Railguns are designed as an anti-capital weapon. The multiplication of damage makes them specifically great against big targets. If the mechanic is OP, their overall damage should be nerfed, instead of the removal of something that makes them unique.

You have to quote a developer in order to make this claim validated, otherwise its a subjective assumption. Aside from that, they're not working as anti-capital weapon, because they do not possess any mechanics, that specifically target large ships, as an objective fact.

 

If we assume that they're working as intended by design, their purpose is to destroy internal blocks, which can be countered by Armor. That's it. However, regardless of Armor standing in the way, their damage against Ship's collective Hull rating is multiplied by the number of blocks the projectile passes trough, regardless of ship size or speed.

 

My statement DOES NOT mean, that penetration has to be abolished altogether - it simply means, that damage has to be divided between the blocks as they're being penetrated, i.e:

- Railgun has penetration rating, that defines the max amount of blocks its projectile can bypass in step-by-step basis, inversely proportional to its base damage.

- IF any non-Armor block is being hit, half of the projectile damage applied to it, and half passes deeper to hit the next block.

- IF Armor block is being hit, all the damage is applied to that block and no further penetration occurs, even if the damage results in the block's destruction.

- IF the projectile reaches the last penetration step (based on penetration score), the remaining damage is applied to the last block hit.

- IF the projectile leaves the target's structure before reaching maximum penetration step, remaining damage is discarded (full bypass).

This way you actually get the weapon, that can destroy fragile internal components if not protected by Armor, but which deals the total of its base damage or less, but not more.

 

As of now, Railgun is balanced to be roughly in par with other weapons by stats (although also mechanically superior to anything), but in practice its damage multiplication places it far beyond of what any other weapon can achieve, including Lightning turrets, which cannot compete with their DPS even with the bonus damage against shields and Railgun's own overheat mechanics taken into account.

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I really think railgun should simply have a reduced number of shot in a minute and the mechanic of halfing the damage on every block would be great too DevineEvil

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