Give Players More Reason to Explore

[Fubar]

There's this huge, beautiful galaxy but there's very little reason to explore more than a very small amount of it. I've come up with some ideas:

 

1)Give reclaimable wreckages boosts to performance that can't normally be built into ships. These boosts might be associated with the root block of the wreckage, or, if the boosts were big enough the wreckage might be uneditable or partially editable. If these boosts were varied enough and substantial enough then it would entice players to explore the galaxy in order to find these powerful, reclaimable wreckages. Don't concentrate the better ones near the center of the galaxy. Make the better ones more expensive to operate. If an early game player doesn't have the ability to reclaim the wreckage they can mark the location and move on to find one that's more suited to their current abilites then come back later. 

 

2)Have captains and generals give boosts to ships. Create green/ blue/ yellow/ red/ purple captains/generals and pepper AI factions with them. Don't concentrate the most powerful captains/generals in the center of the galaxy. Instead, have the more powerful captains/generals require a much higher salary. Create random events in which players can destroy very powerful ships and obtain its captain or a general upon destruction(SPAZ).

 

3)Don't concentrate the avorion/oganite turret factories in the center. The lack of avorion/oganite in the outskirts of the galaxy as well as the high cost of building turrets is enough to keep players from building high level turrets early game. This would give mid/late game players a reason to head back to the outskirts looking for better factories.

 

4)Make better use of the "worshiper" sectors. Make them extremely rare, no more than one for every AI alliance. Greatly reduce the availability of resource rich asteroids in other sectors but make these worshiper sectors extremely rich and well defended.  Give the worshiper sectors the ability to slowly regenerate resources, not so fast that a player doesn't have to move on but not so slow that the sector doesn't have use in the future. This would have the added benefit of giving players something to PvP over and would also give players a good reason to make enemies with AI factions. Currently, as far as I can tell, there is no good reason to make enemies with AI factions. Mid/late game players might head to the outskirts looking for these sectors because the ones closer to the center are too well defended.

 

5)Something like this is probably already in the works but . . Have AI faction headquarters give out a single, very challenging quest once a player is admired. If the player manages to complete this quest reward them with a max rolled legendary turret. Make these quests so challenging that attempting to complete one would require large amounts of time or a very powerful ship. This would cause mid/late game players to scour the outskirts of the galaxy looking to make friends with AI alliances in order to get these incredible turrets. 

 

6)This idea would require the ability for new AI factions to seed as well as more advanced game mechanics but maybe it's something to think about. Create "cosmic" upgrades. These cosmic upgrades might only be obtained by eliminating an AI faction's adversary completely. If adversarial relations shifted and not every faction had an adversary then finding these upgrades would require a lot of exploration. Since AI factions in the center are more powerful this would give mid/late game players a very good reason to explore the outskirts of the galaxy.

 

7)Most importantly, make the game a lot more challenging so that players have a reason to explore for these things.  Increase the cost of building turrets. Make enemies more powerful. Make resources less plentiful. Decrease the efficiency of salvage turrets. Reduce the player's ability to gain credits. Nerf shields. Make the core a ruthless, nearly unbreakable place for truly powerful players who have invested hundreds of hours in the game. The game is just way too easy at this point which pretty much destroys the need to do any large scale exploration and shortens the lifespan of the game. This game is good enough to keep players interested for a longer period of time than it currently takes to master the core.

 

8)(side note)Give upgrades more variety and surprise. Give higher level upgrades the chance to have one or two or three "sub" boosts from another type of upgrade.

 

Great game! Thank you.

[Fubar]

oops

[Laserzwei]

There's this huge, beautiful galaxy but there's very little reason to explore more than a very small amount of it. I've come up with some ideas:

 

1)Give reclaimable wreckages boosts to performance that can't normally be built into ships. These boosts might be associated with the root block of the wreckage, or, if the boosts were big enough the wreckage might be uneditable or partially editable. If these boosts were varied enough and substantial enough then it would entice players to explore the galaxy in order to find these powerful, reclaimable wreckages. Don't concentrate the better ones near the center of the galaxy. Make the better ones more expensive to operate. If an early game player doesn't have the ability to reclaim the wreckage they can mark the location and move on to find one that's more suited to their current abilites then come back later. 

Could be easily done with a mod, balancing would literally be the hardest part.

 

2)Have captains and generals give boosts to ships. Create white/ green/ blue/ yellow/ red/ purple captains/generals and pepper AI factions with them. Don't concentrate the most powerful captains/generals in the center of the galaxy. Instead, have the more powerful captains/generals require a much higher salary. Create random events in which players can destroy very powerful ships and obtain its captain or a general upon destruction(SPAZ).

Not currently moddable (only the boost part is, the rest would require changes from the dev). But I like the general idea of different highly specialised Crews.

 

4)Make better use of the "worshiper" sectors. Make them extremely rare, no more than one for every AI alliance. Greatly reduce the availability of resource rich asteroids in general but make these "worshiper" sectors extremely rich and well defended.  Give these sectors the ability to slowly regenerate resources, not so fast that a player doesn't have to move on but not so slow that the sector doesn't have use in the future. This would have the added benefit of giving players something to PvP over and would also give players a good reason to make enemies with AI factions. Currently, as far as I can tell, there is no good reason to make enemies with AI factions. Mid/late game players might head to the outskirts looking for these sectors because the ones closer to the center are too well defended.

All Asteroid-field sectors actually regenerate some asteroids already. I don't think the worshipers need more detail atm.

 

6)This idea would require the ability for new AI factions to seed as well as more advanced game mechanics but maybe it's something to think about. Create "cosmic" upgrades. These cosmic upgrades might only be obtained by eliminating an AI faction's adversary completely. If adversarial relations shifted and not every faction had an adversary then finding these upgrades would require a lot of exploration. Since AI factions in the center are more powerful this would give mid/late game players a very good reason to explore the outskirts of the galaxy.

Giving the player a god module, especially with 5) would absolutely break any attempt for any kind of balancing. More Dps/HP =/= more fun (not even in pvp. Especially not, if your opponent gets them first!)

 

7)Most importantly, make the game a lot more challenging so that players have a reason to explore for these things.  Increase the cost of building turrets. Make enemies more powerful. Make resources less plentiful. Decrease the efficiency of salvage turrets. Reduce the player's ability to gain credits. Nerf shields. Make the core a ruthless, nearly unbreakable place for truly powerful players who have invested hundreds of hours in the game. The game is just way too easy at this point which pretty much destroys the need to do any large scale exploration and shortens the lifespan of the game. This game is good enough to keep players interested for a longer period of time than it currently takes to master the core.

So you say you want better/best upgrades/turrets (that is what 1,2,5,6,8 can be summed up to) and then you complain here (7) that the game is too "easy" to beat. Right after that you want to nerf every aspect of the current gameplay into a hellish grind.  Avorion is already very grindy for new players and especially at the start. Your proposed changes would keep lots of players away from Avorion. Therefore I have to disagree with  your improper "balancing" proposals.

There are the "Bigger is Better" mods that can give you harder enemies, if you're after that. But don't force your playstyle onto others.

 

Generally you seem to have two metas here:

- "make everything harder to obtain, but give (inbalanced) rewards for it"

- "pull players away from the core"

 

I'm against the 1st and already stated why.

For the 2nd I have to state that the game already has a clear direction: From Edge -> Core. This is literally the main plot of the game. And that plot actually includes traveling away from the core back into the Edge and then back into the core. The only improvement I can see here is putting interesting sectors along that path.

Also you seem to be worried about missing content after beating the Guardian? Well the official roadmap has you covered.

[Fubar]

I find your responses unintelligent and overly dismissive. Obviously, implementing my ideas would require rebalancing the game. 

 

Why is offering ideas complaining?

 

If the game has more challenge added to it and it becomes too challenging for you, then you can play on a lower difficulty. Don't force your play style onto others please.

 

The game has a clear direction? Edge to Core? Did you read the title of the post? The whole point of my post was to offer ideas on ways to change that linear approach. You don't like my ideas? Fine. Don't whine about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Laserzwei]

I find your responses unintelligent and overly dismissive. Obviously, implementing my ideas would require rebalancing the game. 

 

Why is offering ideas complaining?

 

If the game has more challenge added to it and it becomes too challenging for you then you can play on a lower difficulty. Don't force your play style onto others please.

 

The game has a clear direction? Edge to Core? Did you read the title of the post? The whole point of my post was to offer ideas on ways to change that linear approach. You don't like my ideas? Fine. Don't whine about it.

Ask yourself: Did this answer help support the points you brought up in the first post?

 

I gave my opinion about your ideas and explained which and why I like/dislike them. Now you're offended, but I don't care.

So anything productive you want to add here?

[Fubar]

 

Ask yourself: Did this answer help support the points you brought up in the first post?

 

I gave my opinion about your ideas and explained which and why I like/dislike them. Now you're offended, but I don't care.

So anything productive you want to add here?

 

It seems like you were just blowing off steam in your first response so I didn't bother with a long reply. If you don't like my ideas what else can be said? There's no sense in elaborating if you're set on dismissing my ideas. Do you really want me to elaborate? Or are you just arguing? 

 

 

[Laserzwei]

It seems like you were just blowing off steam

That is exactly what I thought about your very first response. I sadly couldn't find any substance in it...

If you don't like my ideas you don't like them. What else can be said? There's no sense in elaborating if you're set on dismissing my ideas.

Maybe you didn't elaborate them enough. Maybe they hold less value for the game, than you're currently convinced? There is a lot to be spoken about and I'm open to find out, are you?

I like the general idea of increasing the amount of gameplay in Avorion. If you've read my 1st response you must have noticed that.

Do you really want me to elaborate? Or are you just arguing?

Yes.

Arguing is the process of understanding someones point of view. Nothing to be afraid of

Tuning your aggressive tone down will likely help though

[Fubar]

 

Tuning your aggressive tone down will likely help though

You started it. I'm willing to move this discussion along in a more intelligent manner. You want to discuss these ideas I've presented in detail? I'm down. Can we do this one by one? You say the first idea is good. If it's a good idea then why should it be limited to a mod? 

[Laserzwei]

You started it. I'm willing to move this discussion along in a more intelligent manner.

Wrong, who started the topic? I'm still waiting for you

You want to discuss these ideas I've presented in detail? I'm down. Can we do this one by one?

Waiting 5 posts for that already. Order it as you please

You say the first idea is good. If it's a good idea then why should it be limited to a mod?

Finally something to discuss.

Wrong assumption though.

I've never excluded it from the game, getting a mod is just faster. That is, If you can find a modder. I'm not going to mod for such a stubborn person. From there it's much easier to tweak it in cooperation with the modder, than it could ever be via the gamedev. The final mod can be integrated into the vanilla game, if the gamedev likes it. If not, you still have the mod. win-win

[Fubar]

How old are you? I get the feeling you are a teenager. Let's just forget about this whole thing. Good luck. 

[Wanderer]

I actually like the idea to do something in the outskirts of the galaxy. There are also going to be legendary bosses, probably on the edge. There is actually a post/topic that suggests to add "warlords, you can defeat the dude and get his stations, sectors and fleets. Maybe there could be sectors that can be found with the wormhole artifact (the leggy thingy to summon allies) to find wormholes that lead somewhere that cant be accessed different with there maybe an endgame mission?

 

Btw, im sorry but except for the first 2 posts this has been rather funny to read, maybe forgive and forget?

[DivineEvil]

Give reclaimable wreckages boosts to performance that can't normally be built into ships. These boosts might be associated with the root block of the wreckage, or, if the boosts were big enough the wreckage might be uneditable or partially editable. If these boosts were varied enough and substantial enough then it would entice players to explore the galaxy in order to find these powerful, reclaimable wreckages. Don't concentrate the better ones near the center of the galaxy. Make the better ones more expensive to operate. If an early game player doesn't have the ability to reclaim the wreckage they can mark the location and move on to find one that's more suited to their current abilities then come back later.

I think that the recoverable ships has to be improved in much more simpler terms than that, at least for starters. As the feature goes now, its little more than a much more rare alternative to just finding the hidden cache, since the ship itself has little value.

 

In my opinion it should be a fully functional ship with visual style, unique weapons and modules included that you can claim, rather than just an empty, worthless piece of inefficient hardware, that is more of a burden, than a prize once recovered. Dev Team should design a much more tailored and precise algorithm for generating these ships with good parameters and varied block shapes, and rework the method of presentation with detector pointing directly at the ship and not at some artificially-looking setup of a beacon, a ship and a container. Once that is in place, then its a time to consider whether something along your suggestion is necessary or not.

 

2)Have captains and generals give boosts to ships. Create green/ blue/ yellow/ red/ purple captains/generals and pepper AI factions with them. Don't concentrate the most powerful captains/generals in the center of the galaxy. Instead, have the more powerful captains/generals require a much higher salary. Create random events in which players can destroy very powerful ships and obtain its captain or a general upon destruction(SPAZ).

Good idea, although far-fetched. Avorion definitely might help some more life put to it. I would certainly appreciate captains as characters with vastly varied portaits and generated names, which give the ship they operate some bonuses. Ability to hire the less powerful captains in friendly faction military outposts, and stronger captains at smuggler hideouts all over the galaxy, and perhaps on some additional neutral space outposts would be great. Without that, the game feels like a galaxy of lifeless drones piloting lifeless hulks to blow each-other till the end of times with nothing to relate to. Getting captains by destroying ships seems like a rather dumb idea though.

 

3)Don't concentrate the avorion/oganite turret factories in the center. The lack of avorion/oganite in the outskirts of the galaxy as well as the high cost of building turrets is enough to keep players from building high level turrets early game. This would give mid/late game players a reason to head back to the outskirts looking for better factories.

This idea goes a long way against the very core construct of Avorion. In fact, its the construct of the vast majority of games. There's a set goal somewhere in the game, and other areas lie in-between the beginning and that goal. One, there's no way to combat this - it is logically impossible. Two, there's no reason in doing so. Three, there's also no sense in having high-tech factories in low-tech regions. I understand it would create a reason to come back, however there's no reason to force people doing that either. They might already be willing to do so for gathering Iron for Inertial Dampeners and Shuttles, or for obtaining quick credits from selling titanium, or for collecting Naonite to build stations with and not from the more valuable materials. If there's a need to adjust the value of the sectors around the galaxy, it definitely is not done by the method you're suggesting.

 

4)Make better use of the "worshiper" sectors.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. I couldn't care less. I didn't understood the idea and purpose of these sectors from the start, and still do not.

 

5)Something like this is probably already in the works but . . Have AI faction headquarters give out a single, very challenging quest once a player is admired. If the player manages to complete this quest reward them with a max rolled legendary turret. Make these quests so challenging that attempting to complete one would require large amounts of time or a very powerful ship. This would cause mid/late game players to scour the outskirts of the galaxy looking to make friends with AI alliances in order to get these incredible turrets.

Again, there's no argument given to persuade players to come back. The suggested implementation also seems to have the same flaws as the point #3

 

6)This idea would require the ability for new AI factions to seed as well as more advanced game mechanics but maybe it's something to think about. Create "cosmic" upgrades. These cosmic upgrades might only be obtained by eliminating an AI faction's adversary completely. If adversarial relations shifted and not every faction had an adversary then finding these upgrades would require a lot of exploration. Since AI factions in the center are more powerful this would give mid/late game players a very good reason to explore the outskirts of the galaxy.

Two questions: Why would you want to promote complete annihilation of factions? Also, do you really believe, that somebody is going to go as far as to complete such an objective? I certainly would not.

 

7)Most importantly, make the game a lot more challenging so that players have a reason to explore for these things.  Increase the cost of building turrets. Make enemies more powerful. Make resources less plentiful. Decrease the efficiency of salvage turrets. Reduce the player's ability to gain credits. Nerf shields. Make the core a ruthless, nearly unbreakable place for truly powerful players who have invested hundreds of hours in the game. The game is just way too easy at this point which pretty much destroys the need to do any large scale exploration and shortens the lifespan of the game. This game is good enough to keep players interested for a longer period of time than it currently takes to master the core.

How does any of that is going to promote exploration exactly? For what I can tell, it might just escalate the grind. There's already a reasons for exploration, such as locating a convenient and visually appealing sector for a base and factory installations, gathering modules and weapons outside of combat, searching for useful wormholes, etc. Exploration already provides larger deposits for mining, abandoned structures for salvaging, smuggler outposts for monetizing stolen goods and so on. Your suggestion essentially has nothing to do with exploration as such, but would negatively affect it as well as broaden the gap between the new and veteran players in multiplayer. I think you should give it more thought.

 

(side note)Give upgrades more variety and surprise. Give higher level upgrades the chance to have one or two or three "sub" boosts from another type of upgrade.

I don't think making mixed modules is wise. It will make matters more confusing. It would be much better to just introduce varied stats to all modules, that are related to their function, and bring modules closer together in terms of value they provide.

[Uthael]

0)

- Try to make one idea per topic. Easier for the forum users to discuss. Easier for the developers to mark it as "done", "in-progress" or "dropped".

- Initially, short topics are easier to read.

- If the discussion about your idea is important to you, it becomes cleaner to edit and expand the original post of one specific topic.

 

1)

- As they are now, reclaimable wrecks are just a bunch of free resources. Once you claim a ship, delete it for 100% resource gain. Done.

- There's a problem if you make those boosts wreck-exclusive: The game is meant for multiplayer. As soon as one player claims something, it's gone. We don't need more of that problem. Whoever comes later, doesn't get that bit of advantage. And whoever started earlier might just go on a wreck hunt just to deprive others from them.

- I consider myself lucky to have found a sector with 2 unclaimed asteroids. People usually just claim any they find and sell them to a random NPC faction for $ and reputation.

- Those wrecks should look great or be built very efficiently! Neither is an advantage in stats and can be achieved with some effort by anyone. Whoever claims a wreck can make a template out of it and scale it or paint it however they like. Modifying them should not be worth it.

 

2)

- Imho, officers giving boosts sounds like a good idea.

- Yes, those that do give boosts should be obtained in an event.

- Some effects might include:

--- lower pay needed for the crew this one commands

--- bonuses to crew levels

--- acts also as a lvl3 gunner (or other)

--- crew is happy even when slightly overpopulated

--- etc.

- Captain goes with the ship! Event story and dialogues should reflect that.

--- You could try bribing, intimidation, flattery, jokes,...

--- Faction's traits should influence which dialogue options an NPC likes

--- You could end up gaining their ship AND crew. Or just some crew. Or just the captain. Or have them blow up in your face.

--- Played FTL? Many unlocks and/or failures happen because of your own choices. I really hope Avorion turns out to be FTL in 3D with customizable ships. https://subsetgames.com/ftl.html

 

3)

- The thing is; a factory showing you stuff that you have no chance of mounting in the near future is just a slap to the player.

- Maybe once you gain enough reputation and do a few quests for the station, the station might show you some "special deals"

 

4)

- Agreed. When my ship was weak, those sectors weren't worth the risk. Now, they're not worth the effort.

- The rock in the middle regenerates faster the bigger it is, up to a maximum size.

- They're worshipping that maximum size as "something in perfect balance" or "miraculous".

- If someone depletes it, it's gone (for a looong cooldown). That's also why they're worshipping it.

- Regeneration rate should be better than farming it whole and waiting for the cooldown.

- It shouldn't be more efficient than farming Xsotan

 

5)

- Just tune down the reward. Or make it a "boost captain" instead. Max rolled legendary turrets are better than someone's whole ship! That being said, getting the next one at the next faction would be half as difficult. After a few times "legendary" would literally become common. I hate words like "great", "epic", "awesome",... being used for common gear in games.

 

6)

- "cosmic" upgrades ... What, having something that is being told about for generations is not enough for you? That's what "legendary" means. "Epic" is something unique in a few hundred years. Only stuff in very limited supply deserves such names. And you just want to plop in another big name. NO! Legendary should be enough for wiping out a race.

 

7)

- That's just implementing more grind.

- I'm fine with grinding as long as there's diverse content distracting me from it. Currently, there's not enough content to support a lot of grinding. The game would just get boring faster.

 

7.1)

- That being said... Content = reasons to explore = topic name.

- Exodus was one reason for me to explore. Science sattelites were the other. And seeing Xsotan hatcheries were curious enough to be third. More events are needed before more grind.

- Many players quit playing before even finding out about The AI. Storyline stuff should have some subtle hints about what to do next. And some pay-to-the-NPC opportunities to solve the thinking for you.

- That NPC should encourage players to solve it on their own and mock them otherwise before explaining.