Integrity fields

[Ethentianknight]

if two integrity fields overlap, do they merge?

does an integrity field guarantee that no blocks will be broken until the group hp has been depleted?

do higher tiers do anything? if so, do they do more than cover more area with less block?

 

Edit: wrong toic. can you move/close this thread?

[koonschi]

if two integrity fields overlap, do they merge?

does an integrity field guarantee that no blocks will be broken until the group hp has been depleted?

Yes and yes.

do higher tiers do anything? if so, do they do more than cover more area with less block?

They're cheaper in terms of money per HP of the block.

 

Moved to General Discussion.

[Ethentianknight]

so in theory, if my ship has inegrity fields covering the entire ship, i will never lose a block.

[koonschi]

Exactly.

[LordHavoc]

Hmm, I'll have to do some experiments

One big block vs multiple spaced out small blocks

[Ranakastrasz]

Are the Integrity fields contributing to a global amount which covers all blocks that are glowing with the field, or is the health value bound to each integrity field generator?

 

I mean, if I had a giant one that covered some of the ship, and scattered tiny ones around to ensure the whole ship was covered, will the whole ship be protected until the field is depleted, or is localized field failure possible?

 

Edit:

With regard to the integrity field, that was actually the source of his death. I only discovered this after reading koonchi's post in another thread. Basically he'd tired his entire ship into one block with the fields. He barely clipped the asteroid with the end of an engine but it was sufficient force to do his entire hull HP in damage. Without the field he would've lost the engine only, with it his entire ship instantly died. The wording on the field makes it seem like each individual block is stronger, but the reality is quite different.

 

 

Edit:

 

Also, thank you for the other information. It is quite helpful.

 

Does this mean that the integrity fields, once you cover your whole ship, result in all blocks stay intact until you have 0% hull, at which point they all die? I got the impression it was more like, it gave a set amount of integrity hitpoints which take damage first, then once they deplete, those blocks all take damage as normal. (And it repairs with the hull)

 

If that isn't the case, it needs a new description or new mechanics. I was thinking it was more like a localized shield to reinforce fragile components and add general localized hitpoints in place of armor, while the actual shield was like the scifi shield bubble mechanic.

[Ranakastrasz]

Ok, so the Integrity field apperently makes all blocks effected be treated like a single block. Kinda cool, but it isn't that hard to make your ship a single block, preventing any physical battle damage. While this is kinda nice for the player, you end up with, for both shields and hull, critical existance failure.

 

One of the fun parts of this kind of game is that the hull has bits break off gradually as you take impacts, requiring you to armor critical locations. Integrity field generators kinda breaks that.

 

 

 

New mechanic:

Any block with an integrity field, when it would take damage, directs it a supporting integrity field generator. Generators have their hitpoints in addition to the same amount if "Integrity" hitpoints. The damage is applied to all integrity field generator "integrity" hitpoints. When all integrity field generators supporting a block fail, the block takes damage as normal instead.

 

 

Psudocode

On damage

find all/lookup list of supporting field generators

For each

 

{

deal damage to integrity hitpoints, deduce from damage-to-do

if damage is zero, break

}

if damage remains, deal to original block damaged.

 

 

[Tajin]

Integrity field generators kinda breaks that.

 

I agree but your idea is pretty much just like a localized version of the shield generator...

 

 

I'd prefer if the integrity field would simply distribute the damage evenly (or weighted by their mass) across all affected blocks.

So on one hand it will likely save the block that is beeing targeted from destruction, but may at the same time cause some low HP blocks in the field to get fried by the damage redistribution.

 

This way it would have both advantages and disadvantages, depending on how you use it.

 

I think that that would be a very simple improvement over the current system and still very much in the spirit of the game.

[Ranakastrasz]

The problem is that even like that, it is still too easy to make your ship into a Hitpoint Brick, where you cannot take any real damage until your hitpoints hit zero. A localized shield would be far better for this kind of game.

 

Wheres the fun if you can't blast pieces off of an enemy ship? The combat will just look like any space game with Shields then Hull then dead, instead of allowing subsystem damage.

[Tajin]

The problem is that even like that, it is still too easy to make your ship into a Hitpoint Brick

 

See it the other way around: Without the integrity fields, you would basically get punished for building detailed ships.

 

 

 

Maybe the I-fields shouldn't connect to each other and grow less effective (use more power) when you make them too big.

That way the tiny details can be protected but you could still destroy chunks of the ship.

[Depth386]

I would like to chime in here. This is my first post and I have just over 10 hours played.

 

I saved up 10K Titanium and tried building a ship that could withstand some combat. It had a top speed of 600, braking 30, and performed reasonably. Weaponry was 2 Double Chain Guns with Burst/Overheat.

 

It eventually met it's end when I tried to take on a whole group of pirates. I destroyed more than half of them and then died without warning. I did find it lame that the integrity field didn't let me see any damage until at one point I was simply dead and that was it. I really think integrity fields should "run out" and allow you to begin losing bricks. This would be a compromise to not punish detailed ships but allow the feel of "she can't take much more captain". As it is, it's devolved into a guessing game as to when retreat becomes the best option.

 

I worry that this would be the same as Shields, so I'm not sure if my proposal is the best option. Warning messages would be another reasonable way to deal with this. Or have a bar for hull integrity perhaps.

[Ranakastrasz]

Avoiding simularity to shields is the whole reason I wanted them to all have seperate "integrity" hitpoints, for their local area. That would let you reinforce an area, while letting it be worn down and then torn apart given enough firepower, while not effecting the rest of the ship. If it covered the whole ship, it would just be shield 2.0. or shield would be integrity field 2.0

 

I think there was something about the field giving a percentage damage resistance, like making every block effected take 25% less damage or something.

 

Honestly, the localized Hp boost is my prefered solution, since it would let you reinforce details and fragile components, while still allowing subsystem damage.

[DeatHTaX]

Why not just make integrity fields have a greater energy demand. That way you would have to think about where you would place them.

 

Or, once a certain I-field takes an amount of damage, it fails and has to recharge for a duration, then it goes back up. I personally like this idea better.

[Kane Hart]

BTW there is weapons that ignore shields before we all start hyping for nerfs.

[Ranakastrasz]

Why not just make integrity fields have a greater energy demand. That way you would have to think about where you would place them.

 

Or, once a certain I-field takes an amount of damage, it fails and has to recharge for a duration, then it goes back up. I personally like this idea better.

 

The second idea is just a recording of the localized shield method.

 

BTW there is weapons that ignore shields before we all start hyping for nerfs.

 

So does ramming. Does it ignore integrity fields? Also this is not a nerf, it is a mechanic change. Overall I expect an increase in total hp but a loss of localized hp.

[koonschi]

Integrity fields currently make blocks invincible. This means that every block inside an integrity field has the same HP as the entire ship. I think I don't have to tell you why this is bad and why it makes certain blocks completely useless.

 

Instead, in the new patch, integrity fields will make blocks more durable, but not invincible. The ship's HP will remain the same, but the blocks will take longer to be destroyed.

[DeatHTaX]

Integrity fields currently make blocks invincible. This means that every block inside an integrity field has the same HP as the entire ship. I think I don't have to tell you why this is bad and why it makes certain blocks completely useless.

 

Instead, in the new patch, integrity fields will make blocks more durable, but not invincible. The ship's HP will remain the same, but the blocks will take longer to be destroyed.

 

I think that's a step in the right direction for sure. Whether or not it's the ideal mechanic, I don't think I have the ability to determine, but I honestly think we can all agree this is better.

 

Or maybe not. Who knows.

[Tchey]

I was thinking integrity fields could apply only on directly linked blocks. So, all blocks under one same field would share hitpoints, if and only if they share a face with the same integrity field.

 

Anyway, the invincible fields are wrong, so a change is good.

[ChoMar]

Id like to see something like

The Ship gets hit, 50% of the damage go to the whole ship and 50% to the block that was hit.

I also like the idea of a limited Integrity Field, like shields. Everytime it gets hit, it looses energy.

In that direction, I would also like the shields to let some damage through. Like, 10% or so. Shield gets drained, and you take some damage to your ship. This basically means that integrity field and shields are the same. BUT with different stats.

For example, if you get hit with 100 Dmg and have shield and integrity field, the shield takes 90 Dmg, 5 Dmg go to the whole ship via Integrity Field (and your integrity field takes 5 Dmg) and 5 Dmg go directly to the block that was hit.

It makes things more complex, but it also forces players to build well-balanced ships. Im not sure about the actual numbers, maybe both need to be lower to even make sense.

Only problem there is, the damage is small. So, I dont know how the Game does Values <1, but this might be a problem. Scaling everything up x100 would solve that, but that could be a lot of work.

[Korhaka]

An idea I heard that sounds quite nice is they keep blocks from breaking until around 25% hull, then blocks can start to break. Perhaps even as the hull gets even lower they break even more often.

[Husky110]

But then there still lies the question if those fields stack.

If I build a 4x4 Integrityfield I want it to be more durable than a 2x2.

What I could see would be like that the first generator adds 100% of it's value to the block-durability and every block else adds like 25-30%.

[Tchey]

I start to think they should be removed completly from the game.

[Thundercraft]

I start to think they should be removed completly from the game.

 

Without any sort of integrity field, small bits of ships would break off very easily. A very minor bump would break off lots of stuff. And nobody would bother to add decorative parts to ships like antenna masts or anything like small tubes or poles because they'd break off in combat all the time. Not to mention: Wedge-shaped ship designs are quite popular in Avorion right now. But the pointed edges can sometimes break off fairly easily, depending on the design. So, we'd see much less of those.

 

The bottom line: Without integrity fields, ships designs would tend towards giant cubes. And how boring would it be to fly in a universe where nearly all player ships resemble borg cubes or are very cube-like? (See the How do you make a well armoured ship that isnt a cube? discussion.)

[Ranakastrasz]

This is why I wanted localized shield mechanic integrity fields. Lets you make details durable, but lets blocks break off later once it all depletes.

 

 

When everything was one solid lump of HP, did Holograms also function like that? and now, do they just break and block one shot, or do shots go through them, or what? And what about Scaffolding? How does overkill get mananged...

 

Thats a bit off topic, I suppose.

[Miles_Prower]

Now, after the recent patch, integrity field just makes all blocks in it 10 times more durable than normal without effecting the hp loss of the ship in any way.