Dev Progress: Combat Update Part I

[Wanderer]

The ammo part? Well, it might work, but then like this: a turret gets 2 new stats: ammo usage/second and ammo production/second, with ammo not transferable between turrets or something like that. This would mean that your turret might be really powerfull, but if you got a really high ammo usage and a low production, its not gonna be OP, but more of a burst fire weapon. But after all with the overheating, i think that it's fine like it is now.

 

My thought would be to just abstract ammunition production and have a weapon decrease your ore reserves as it fires.

 

Example: Firing an iron chain gun uses 1 iron ore / second.

 

This incentivizes weapon diversification and leads to more tactical choices.

• What resources can you devote to this encounter?
  
• Do you have enough resources to see the fight to completion?
  
• Should you keep one or two common material turrets mounted to deal with lesser threats?
  
• What combination of mining/salvage is necessary to keep your fleet fight ready?
  

 

I dont like the idea of using material, because weapons already overheat or are not that powerfull, with the exception of lasers and tesla's, for that, it would be nice to have something like that, because they become so OP so fast. (I got 60 teslaturrets that do 8900 dps on 3,9 range, thats way to good)

[Hellatze]

The ammo part? Well, it might work, but then like this: a turret gets 2 new stats: ammo usage/second and ammo production/second, with ammo not transferable between turrets or something like that. This would mean that your turret might be really powerfull, but if you got a really high ammo usage and a low production, its not gonna be OP, but more of a burst fire weapon. But after all with the overheating, i think that it's fine like it is now.

 

My thought would be to just abstract ammunition production and have a weapon decrease your ore reserves as it fires.

 

Example: Firing an iron chain gun uses 1 iron ore / second.

 

This incentivizes weapon diversification and leads to more tactical choices.

• What resources can you devote to this encounter?
  
• Do you have enough resources to see the fight to completion?
  
• Should you keep one or two common material turrets mounted to deal with lesser threats?
  
• What combination of mining/salvage is necessary to keep your fleet fight ready?
  

 

I dont like the idea of using material, because weapons already overheat or are not that powerfull, with the exception of lasers and tesla's, for that, it would be nice to have something like that, because they become so OP so fast. (I got 60 teslaturrets that do 8900 dps on 3,9 range, thats way to good)

 

I have laser gives 22.000 dps.

 

Building station near gal center are OP.

 

Tearing any ship to shreds.

[Shrooblord]

Cool update from the looks of things. I wonder if we'll be able to custom-design torpedoes like in From the Depths? Always loved that part of custom weapon design in that game.

 

----

 

I also had an idea for an interesting "new mechanic" when I read that your reaction speed is important when shooting down torpedoes: turret rotational speed. You know how all turrets take equally long to aim from one spot to another spot when looking at equidistant scenarios? What if there were some turrets that are a lot faster at spinning around, acquiring new targets and the like? What if such turrets had Independent Targeting, and if you could somehow categorise turret groups into Attack or Defence stance, with Defence prioritising targets at close range, while Attack prioritises attacks from a distance. Might be an interesting counter to coming across torpedo-wielding enemies.

 

And while we're spouting ideas here, I've always loved the notion of crazy Battleship Tachyon Beams. You know, the type of "Imma firing mah laz0r" nonsense you see in Sci-Fi a lot. Long, long charge time. Crazy range. Decimating damage. Big light show. Many fun.

 

The last big features with this update will be more specialized weapons, giving weapons more specific roles, as well as improved control over your ships that are far away. You'll be able to travel into sectors where you have stationed ships, so that you can give orders more effectively and don't have to warp all the way back to just tell your miner to change sectors.

Oh amazing. This is one of my most sorely missed features. Thank you so so much!!

 

EDIT:

I'm not familiar with the Avorion update cycle. Is there a fixed date when updates roll out? Is there a place on my calendar I can already look forward to and hype myself up for? Or is it an "it'll come when it's ready" type of deal? I'm cool with both by the way, but I'd like to know.

[Hellatze]

Avorion rarely updates.

 

Even when they do update, they are not so significant and incomplete.

 

Just like that economy update.

 

And range between update are more than a monsth usualy or probably more.

 

And avorion dev rarely talk to its people.

[Romual]

That is normal rate, not slow. Look at FTD, where updates come once/twice a year. Game is playable as it is, so not "every month" update cycle is fine. And looking how fast they fixed they salvaging mistake - they do at least READ what we write. I call the fact that there are two (?) devs, and they have their lives AND game developement. I say they are better of resting or developing instead of chatting their life off with users. Community Manager does that, and he writes update news and that's that.

[Hellatze]

That is normal rate, not slow. Look at FTD, where updates come once/twice a year. Game is playable as it is, so not "every month" update cycle is fine. And looking how fast they fixed they salvaging mistake - they do at least READ what we write. I call the fact that there are two (?) devs, and they have their lives AND game developement. I say they are better of resting or developing instead of chatting their life off with users. Community Manager does that, and he writes update news and that's that.

 

1. FTD need some optimization, sure playable. However they need to put more detail to tutorial. And they have core feature already implemented, and remove exploit. They always talk to their community.

 

2. I dont care about how many developer out there. Game have a big responsibity, you should not use that kind of reason, because the game itself need a serious patch and feature. Diffrent from FTD who have all feature and removing lots of bug.

 

3. Salvage patch are insignificant, they should fix economy update.

 

4. No communication are serious business in alpha stage. Critics and testing are part of development too.

[Ravien]

I also had an idea for an interesting "new mechanic" when I read that your reaction speed is important when shooting down torpedoes: turret rotational speed. You know how all turrets take equally long to aim from one spot to another spot when looking at equidistant scenarios? What if there were some turrets that are a lot faster at spinning around, acquiring new targets and the like?

 

Turrets already do have different rotational speeds. You can tell by how quickly the aiming circles follow your mouse cursor. Your chain guns will aim quicker than say, your cannon turrets, though right now there's not enough difference between them. Hopefully this update will include allowing chainguns to turn much faster and things like cannon turrets and railguns will turn slower.

[Ravien]

Avorion rarely updates.

 

Even when they do update, they are not so significant and incomplete.

 

Just like that economy update.

 

And range between update are more than a monsth usualy or probably more.

 

And avorion dev rarely talk to its people.

 

 

I have seen some of your posts in the Mods forum and I don't know if it's a language barrier or what but it's really hard to ever follow what you're trying to say. From my reading, it seems like you're always talking about something completely different than the subject at hand and that makes it hard to try to help you.

 

Avorion has had major updates in July, October, and December. That is a major patch every 2-3 months so far. I'm not sure what games YOU play but that's definitely not "rarely" compared to the industry at large, it's about average or above average.

They've also released numerous smaller patches and hotfixes between the larger patches. The last update was December 9th, one month and 4 days ago. Avorion seems to follow the standard patch cycle of a major patch, followed by a series of smaller hotfixes and patches, followed by a period of few/no patches until the release of the next major update. That's normal. That's standard. I'm not a game developer but that update schedule makes intuitive sense to me.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say, Hellatze. I strongly feel there's a language barrier here or something.

[Hellatze]

Avorion rarely updates.

 

Even when they do update, they are not so significant and incomplete.

 

Just like that economy update.

 

And range between update are more than a monsth usualy or probably more.

 

And avorion dev rarely talk to its people.

 

 

I have seen some of your posts in the Mods forum and I don't know if it's a language barrier or what but it's really hard to ever follow what you're trying to say. From my reading, it seems like you're always talking about something completely different than the subject at hand and that makes it hard to try to help you.

 

Avorion has had major updates in July, October, and December. That is a major patch every 2-3 months so far. I'm not sure what games YOU play but that's definitely not "rarely" compared to the industry at large, it's about average or above average.

They've also released numerous smaller patches and hotfixes between the larger patches. The last update was December 9th, one month and 4 days ago. Avorion seems to follow the standard patch cycle of a major patch, followed by a series of smaller hotfixes and patches, followed by a period of few/no patches until the release of the next major update. That's normal. That's standard. I'm not a game developer but that update schedule makes intuitive sense to me.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say, Hellatze. I strongly feel there's a language barrier here or something.

 

No, you simply refuse to understand my comment.

 

And the major patch filled with nasty bug, exploit, and still incomplete.

 

Grammar insult are outdated, think a better insult.

[Romual]

Leave him be in his ideal world of bugless updates every month a 24/7 dev communication with dev team of 2 people. It will only lead to pointless argument.

[Hellatze]

Last time we got major update are near 2 months ago.

 

And the bug and exploit still exist, sone player even making mod to counter thoose.

 

However dev rarely giving us a news. Let alone what we will get in next patch.

 

I didnt ask for perfect game with no bug at all. I am asking dev to talk and communicate.

 

They rarely do that.

[Ravien]

Last time we got major update are near 2 months ago.

 

Last major patch was the economy update five weeks ago, on December 6th. Not "near 2 months ago."

Source: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,4141.0.html

 

However dev rarely giving us a news. Let alone what we will get in next patch.

 

They revealed major info about the next planned major update to combat on December 12th and December 19th. We have a pretty good idea what major features are coming in the next few large updates.

Source:

http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,4235.0.html

http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,4276.0.html

 

The dev team has made 8 new posts on this very forum during the months of December and January combined. That is an average of more than 1 new post per week. I simply do not understand how you come to the conclusions that you do. You can criticize the game, criticism is needed during early access to help develop the game, but the things you have stated are so off base that I am just confused.

[Shrooblord]

And the bug and exploit still exist, sone player even making mod to counter thoose.

Which exploit do you refer to?

 

Turrets already do have different rotational speeds. You can tell by how quickly the aiming circles follow your mouse cursor. Your chain guns will aim quicker than say, your cannon turrets, though right now there's not enough difference between them. Hopefully this update will include allowing chainguns to turn much faster and things like cannon turrets and railguns will turn slower.

Oh hey, you're right. Is this stat visible anywhere in-game?

[Hellatze]

And the bug and exploit still exist, sone player even making mod to counter thoose.

Which exploit do you refer to?

 

Turrets already do have different rotational speeds. You can tell by how quickly the aiming circles follow your mouse cursor. Your chain guns will aim quicker than say, your cannon turrets, though right now there's not enough difference between them. Hopefully this update will include allowing chainguns to turn much faster and things like cannon turrets and railguns will turn slower.

Oh hey, you're right. Is this stat visible anywhere in-game?

 

for bug : AI afk in sector. making transation incomplete. there is a mod to ficx that.

 

for exploit : a trading post who i can take away all of the goods, and re sell to other station (i have 800 war robots, and sell it to military station, fastest 100 million ever)

[Shrooblord]

for bug : AI afk in sector. making transation incomplete. there is a mod to ficx that.

Really? Which one? I've had traders stuck in my core system, and a fix for that would be lovely.

 

for exploit : a trading post who i can take away all of the goods, and re sell to other station (i have 800 war robots, and sell it to military station, fastest 100 million ever)

Ah, you mean trading a ton of expensive goods to make a quick buck? Yes, I too think the economy system could use a bit of an update in that regard. There's this Economy Update mod, one part of Wayleran's Galaxy Modpack that attempts to fix that and also takes a wrench to other parts of the game's balancing. I'm sure you personally are already aware of this modpack, but for any others reading, it may be of interest to you. I personally enjoy them. They make the game a lot more challenging.

 

I think the exploit you mention highlights another problem I've run into as of late: while it's relatively easy to make a lot of money, it's very hard to effectively get a load of resources. Sure, you can buy them at a Resource Depot, and that costs a metric crapton of money, if it even has the resource you're looking for in stock.

[Hellatze]

i really wish, dev are the one who fix this issue.

 

not mod maker.

 

and mod that you give, nothing more than data altering. basically : lower value that in your favor. add value in enemy favor. nerf everything and give nothing.

 

in the end, everything become chaotic.

 

[Wanderer]

If you guys think the game isn't good as it is right now, then stop playing it! They're trying to improve and i dont get the problem, because they try to do their best (i pressume) and thats all i need, if you think something isn't right about it for you, then do something about it yourself by using a mod. Not everything can be fixt or added in a short period of time! Do you want quality or quantity? And yes, quality is not optimal, i agree, not even close to that, but it will never be optimal!

 

ps. i do agree about the developers not reacting thing

[Shrooblord]

Hey, I said nothing about the game not being good. I'm pouring countless hours into this game. I'm absolutely in love with Avorion right now.

 

I'm just pointing out some issues I've had while playing, and fantasising about some areas I'd like to see improved in the future.

 

Mostly, I just like talking about ideas I have and ideas other people have. Just talking about it is half the fun for me, personally, at least. Gets the imagination going.

[Hellatze]

If you guys think the game isn't good as it is right now, then stop playing it! They're trying to improve and i dont get the problem, because they try to do their best (i pressume) and thats all i need, if you think something isn't right about it for you, then do something about it yourself by using a mod. Not everything can be fixt or added in a short period of time! Do you want quality or quantity? And yes, quality is not optimal, i agree, not even close to that, but it will never be optimal!

 

ps. i do agree about the developers not reacting thing

You are not even him, what makes you thi k they do their best ? Are you a diviner by any chance ?

[Romual]

If you guys think the game isn't good as it is right now, then stop playing it! They're trying to improve and i dont get the problem, because they try to do their best (i pressume) and thats all i need, if you think something isn't right about it for you, then do something about it yourself by using a mod. Not everything can be fixt or added in a short period of time! Do you want quality or quantity? And yes, quality is not optimal, i agree, not even close to that, but it will never be optimal!

 

ps. i do agree about the developers not reacting thing

You are not even him, what makes you thi k they do their best ? Are you a diviner by any chance ?

 

Are you one maybe? His guess is as good as yours in my book, since both of you are not devs.

[Hellatze]

If you guys think the game isn't good as it is right now, then stop playing it! They're trying to improve and i dont get the problem, because they try to do their best (i pressume) and thats all i need, if you think something isn't right about it for you, then do something about it yourself by using a mod. Not everything can be fixt or added in a short period of time! Do you want quality or quantity? And yes, quality is not optimal, i agree, not even close to that, but it will never be optimal!

 

ps. i do agree about the developers not reacting thing

You are not even him, what makes you thi k they do their best ? Are you a diviner by any chance ?

 

Are you one maybe? His guess is as good as yours in my book, since both of you are not devs.

 

Ah a guy intentionaly missing my point.

 

That guy want to attack me. And telling us to stop playing, and telling me to know that dev work hard. I tell him otherwise.

 

Game created to be played, if you telling me to stop. I request refund.

 

 

 

 

[Wanderer]

I dont mean you should stop playing, but you cant change the rate of updates. You knew it was an alpha game, so you should have known it was not bugfree and polished yet. It wasn't my intention to attack or insult anyone, but stuff takes time, they're humans after all, and that's what i meant with my previous post.

 

ps. If i insult/attack someone with this post, im sorry, it wasn't my intention.

 

[Cahotage]

I dont mean you should stop playing, but you cant change the rate of updates. You knew it was an alpha game, so you should have known it was not bugfree and polished yet. It wasn't my intention to attack or insult anyone, but stuff takes time, they're humans after all, and that's what i meant with my previous post.

 

ps. If i insult/attack someone with this post, im sorry, it wasn't my intention.

 

Wanderer, I don't think anyone else took your comments as insulting or as an attack.  You're good in my book.

[Kamo]

As the program gets bigger and the devs face new challenges they couldn't ou didn't plan, needing more tinkering with the core game, the game code itself becomes bigger and more complex, causing development time to increase.

 

Minecraft is the biggest example: it had weekly, or even faster updates in alpha, but in the late beta the updates went monthly for content and irregular for engine changes, which sometimes took several months. Mojang, which was only Notch at the time, had to hire new staff, but the new staff looked at the code and had to acclimatize to its complexity and intricacy, so the delay was even greater as Notch had to explain the code and leave more comments in it.

 

We're lucky: since Avorion is coded by two people, the code must be understandable by both, so more understandable in general, therefore less complicated and more prone to be tampered with by eventual new staff. :)

[Hellatze]

We are unlucky because we spend our money on dev who rarely communicate with us. And the update took too long for this game to finished.

 

If i have time machine, i will convince myself to not buy this game. And save my money on the game that well made.

 

Most of my time wasted on testing and afk. Believing myself that this game are worthy to play. After i realize the progress in theese year. They are unworthy, mostly come with exploit and bugs. The questline itself are not finished, and fighter system are dissapointing. (Why bother having big hangar but having fighter limited tp 120 ?) And there is a bug where i jump to sector, i got disconnect and retutn in drone,lost all fighters. Also AI trader went AFK gives station become useless. Why bother adding station ? If not because of mods, i will not make it.

 

So many wrakness in this alpha game. And think realisticly, only 2 people who rarely communicate with community, who get profit from 1 game. Do you think they have will power to maintain this gamr ? I dont think so.

 

I wish i could refund.