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Reviire

Make Everything Require Cargo Space

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This is something I thought was very weird in the game. Goods require cargo space, but ore, weapons and components do not. It's just strange and inconsistent, plus it also makes mining far easier and rewarding than it should be.

 

I don't think there's really much to say here, except to make ore, weapons and components require cargo space. I think it'd be a suitable change to mining, requiring the player to haul materials to wherever they need them, such as a ship yard to upgrade their ship or store (If you don't upgrade it on the spot.), or to a space station to sell, rather than amassing a potentially infinite amount of resources.

 

Plus, it might encourage some cooler mining ships, giant containers covered in mining lasers, the cool sorts.

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I posted on this subject a day or two ago.  I think (to make the game tolerable if you have some bad luck) this would require players to have a safe station with no fees and infinite storage on the galactic rim at their spawn point, free from pirate attack.

 

Otherwise, you probably end up carrying everything around with you and you're at constant risk of going right back to the start.

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I posted on this subject a day or two ago.  I think (to make the game tolerable if you have some bad luck) this would require players to have a safe station with no fees and infinite storage on the galactic rim at their spawn point, free from pirate attack.

 

Otherwise, you probably end up carrying everything around with you and you're at constant risk of going right back to the start.

Well, the idea is to prevent that. You shouldn't be able to carry everything with you, unless you invest in some sort of massive hauler, which makes sense for you to be vulnerable. But ofcourse, you could probably store materials at a shipyard.

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The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

 

And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

 

The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

 

And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

 

While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

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The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

 

And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

 

The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

 

And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

 

While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

 

I agree with this.  I like the idea.  But the player needs to be able to build and control infrastructure such as mining stations, supply fleets, and construct fleets more easily.  This would help with players collecting resources to quickly cause you need somewhere safe to keep it all.  And massive building projects would require you to be able mobilize various assets to run the project smoothly.  We just need to be able to do all that first.

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The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

 

And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

 

The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

 

And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

 

While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

Well, my thinking behind this was, if you want to start really getting into building you would gear yourself towards it. A combat ship shouldn't be mining, but it should be making cash and weapons off of enemies, using the cash to build itself. A miner may be able to hire escorts because it's 85% cargo, so it can mine a large amount and make a decent amount of cash, or even just keep expanding itself. Same with a trader, hire escorts.

 

So even without supporting infrastructure you'd be able to do your playstyle, but you wouldnt' be a combat ship holding 80,000 trinium

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The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

 

And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

 

The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

 

And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

 

While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

Well, my thinking behind this was, if you want to start really getting into building you would gear yourself towards it. A combat ship shouldn't be mining, but it should be making cash and weapons off of enemies, using the cash to build itself. A miner may be able to hire escorts because it's 85% cargo, so it can mine a large amount and make a decent amount of cash, or even just keep expanding itself. Same with a trader, hire escorts.

 

So even without supporting infrastructure you'd be able to do your playstyle, but you wouldnt' be a combat ship holding 80,000 trinium

I'm fine with the way the game is set up, and it would require a ridiculous amount of change to bring that around. Every time you removed a block on a ship with full cargo space, whoops! Lost your materials, and you can't replace the block you just removed because the material is floating there in space. Or if your hold was full of gold and you needed more space because a freighter carrying neutron accelerators just got ganked in front of you and you want his cargo, no dice, you have to go dump the gold somewhere and go mine something so you can build the cargo bay and then come back and hope it's still there. Gee, what fun!

 

There are plenty of other games that feature this, and it makes logistics intensely boring and the game slower as a result. EVE, Space Engineers, etc. It all revolves around having established places to constantly return to, and in this game that would be exceptionally restrictive since you're required to explore and push the boundaries. (Most people who make factories and mines do so closer to the core anyway, which would be far, FAR beyond when you would first need your storage station.)

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The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

 

And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

 

The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

 

And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

 

While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

Well, my thinking behind this was, if you want to start really getting into building you would gear yourself towards it. A combat ship shouldn't be mining, but it should be making cash and weapons off of enemies, using the cash to build itself. A miner may be able to hire escorts because it's 85% cargo, so it can mine a large amount and make a decent amount of cash, or even just keep expanding itself. Same with a trader, hire escorts.

 

So even without supporting infrastructure you'd be able to do your playstyle, but you wouldnt' be a combat ship holding 80,000 trinium

I'm fine with the way the game is set up, and it would require a ridiculous amount of change to bring that around. Every time you removed a block on a ship with full cargo space, whoops! Lost your materials, and you can't replace the block you just removed because the material is floating there in space. Or if your hold was full of gold and you needed more space because a freighter carrying neutron accelerators just got ganked in front of you and you want his cargo, no dice, you have to go dump the gold somewhere and go mine something so you can build the cargo bay and then come back and hope it's still there. Gee, what fun!

 

There are plenty of other games that feature this, and it makes logistics intensely boring and the game slower as a result. EVE, Space Engineers, etc. It all revolves around having established places to constantly return to, and in this game that would be exceptionally restrictive since you're required to explore and push the boundaries. (Most people who make factories and mines do so closer to the core anyway, which would be far, FAR beyond when you would first need your storage station.)

I mean it takes like 30 minutes reach the outer edge of the core. Then you just have the grind to actually get in.

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I like the fact I don't have to mess with all of this.

 

I don't have a problem being in a world where all of my ore and turrets and such are found and then consigned and delivered to a base somewhere else. I don't have to know where that is as long as I have access.

 

This game will have plenty of micro management as it is. (research, anyone..?)

 

I'd rather use cargo space for other game play opportunities like life pods or scripted events instead of being bogged down with 52 clicks and "where'd I put my @#$% Trinium" anytime I want to do some ship building.

 

YMMV. Cheers..!

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I like where you're heading, but what happens if my cargo hold gets destroyed? do I loose my materials?

Of course. If you screw up, and have your materials in your ship, and either haven't bothered or haven't been able to store them/sell them, you get punished for it. Like you would in any Space sim. Elite Dangerous, X games, Freespace, EvE Online etc.

 

To an above comment, the game has no micromanagement. Research is purely putting 5 of your 680 turrets and repeating that until you get some epics. The rest of the game is... I don't know. Spending half an hour getting to Trinium/Orgonite, then beginning the annoying grind to get Avorion.

 

You need to have something to manage to micromanage it, the game completely lacks anything to manage. Granted, some of this may be getting added. But you don't need to manage cargo, units, diplomacy, or even combat.

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I am in for cargo needs for materials too

 

Feels much more imersive and i like to play in a reasonable restricted enviroment

 

The point of building mats is valid imho. But on the other side, building ships is whats shipyards are for. So why not go to a shipyard and order your new shiny ship (after providing mats of course ;-)

For small changes and step by step builds, it should be possible to live out of your cargo space, but for big new things lets use shipyards.

 

I would prefer two build modes for shipyards

1. automatic build with your template/design - you could provide mats or buy them via shipyard, shipyard takes a building fee

 

2. manual building in the dockyard - you dock (or create) your ship and build like today, but mats are stored in the (infinite) shipyard, your ship stayes moored at the shipyard and you can switch to other ships for supply or everything you like until you come back and continue building

added benefits could be better (100%?) recycling of removed blocks, mothball stat (no need for mechanics to substain ship), insurance for causalitys during bulding time etc.

 

 

For cargo management you should be able to rent space on stations (reputation based?)

transfering goods would still be a topic but you could do it yourself or pay npc´s to do it (no need to simulate the real transport, a fee and transport time based of distance should be enough)

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I'd like to have the need for cargo far everything ingame, too.

 

To build a new ship or a bigger one, i'd have a cargo crate i can detach from my ship, just like a truck can remove its charge, or a train detach a wagon, without losing its ability to "exist".

 

And if i die, i die. It would give Stations a better meaning, and player's base(s) too, obviously.

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Yes I do find it weird that materials and systems and weapons and all that don't require cargo space. However, I dare anyone to find a solution that doesn't involve hours upon hours of going back and forth between a base and wherever you're exploring/farming/fighting/playing the game.

 

I do enjoy not wasting a ton of time flying to places I've been before just to secure what I've been doing for the past X amount of time.

 

Maybe this could be integrated once we get a good system that includes running the galaxy in the background and controlling ships of the player's faction at a distance. Then perhaps we could build freighters or whatever kind of hybrid ship you want to to do the grunt work of stockpiling or delivering what you need between your currently selected ship and your base.

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I dare anyone to find a solution that doesn't involve hours upon hours of going back and forth between a base and wherever you're exploring/farming/fighting/playing the game.

 

I do enjoy not wasting a ton of time flying to places I've been before just to secure what I've been doing for the past X amount of time.

 

 

as suggested earlier, just let the game move your suff for a fee, if this includes some waiting time or not is just a matter of taste.

would solve your problem and it´s still possible to include real hauling of stuff (with your own freighters for example) later in the development

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[...]

 

as suggested earlier, just let the game move your suff for a fee, if this includes some waiting time or not is just a matter of taste.

would solve your problem and it´s still possible to include real hauling of stuff (with your own freighters for example) later in the development

I guess it fits the criteria, but it feels just about as weird as the current system where everything seems to be stored in a parallel universe. *cue red hot chili peppers

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I guess it fits the criteria, but it feels just about as weird as the current system where everything seems to be stored in a parallel universe.

 

I have "people" that handle my materials and money. I have no issue using a little imagination to have that stuff moved into storage or be put into a system wide pool of materials that I can pull from.

 

It's been suggested there should be a charge for this service. Something a kin to Operating Expenses. I like that. Especially when compared to all the time and space I'm going to have to waste trying to ferry materials to build my next ship. And what do you do with the first one..? Carry a couple plates in your lap at a time in your little rover miner thingie..?

 

I think you should have to build by a shipyard. Your materials in the pool have to be made accessible. When you're near a ship or repair yard, or even a resource station you are in a place you can use your vouchers for all the stuff you put in and get the stuff out. I don't think that holds true out in some backwater sector with no stations. That breaks immersion for me... 

 

So, a monthly Operating Expense to take in, hold and release your materials and make it so you have to be near an appropriate exchange agent to get your materials and build when you need them..?

 

Cheers..!

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At that point, I prefer my idea to actually organize a supply chain using freighters eventually than having stuff moving magically. I mean, it's not like the "people" we have handle our money and other things are able to come get physical things from our house that's lightyears away to stash it safely.

 

A simple fix could simply be to make minerals and/or turrets/systems use a little space so that you can actually hold more than necessary to build a bigger ship without requiring a stupidly large cargo bay. Maybe something like 0.1 cargo per turret/system and even less than that for minerals (0.1 for a hundred units of minerals?).

 

As for requiring shipyards, that's a whole other debate which is probably worth searching because koonschi actually said something about... but honestly, if you can use a "little imagination" to magically move stuff from your ship, then why couldn't you use a little imagination to have people build a new ship from tools and materials  they have on hand?

 

 

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I prefer my idea to actually organize a supply chain using freighters eventually than having stuff moving magically.

 

If there were a low-resource ship type you could build, a simple freighter that's mostly cargo space, and a captain - and give it orders to haul goods back to a selected base even across multiple sectors that would solve the issue.  The AI would need to plan a route, but sectors wouldn't have to actually load unless already loaded.  And presumably the AI would have a default of 'run from everyone until you can jump out of there' flight plan.

 

You'd also need to be able to give orders to that ship while it's enroute - I say hijack the player mail system for that.  You could request it haul back anything you need and meet up with you at a target sector, or have it turn around mid-trip.

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i am all in for a realistic approach, but, after all, the game (AI, galaxy simulation) is no were near this point where we could expect something like an KI driven supply chain without simplification/abstraction

 

on the other hand, i spent to much time in EVE-Online to enjoy  logistic work (hauling stuff) myself on a regular base - without some tools around this restrictions i prefer to take what we have now until there is a better solution possible

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i am all in for a realistic approach, but, after all, the game (AI, galaxy simulation) is no were near this point where we could expect something like an KI driven supply chain without simplification/abstraction

 

on the other hand, i spent to much time in EVE-Online to enjoy  logistic work (hauling stuff) myself on a regular base - without some tools around this restrictions i prefer to take what we have now until there is a better solution possible

Well, that's pretty much what I suggested originally. Until the game is at the point where setting up a supply chain is feasible and relatively painless, then the current system can hold just fine.

 

That was exactly 7 posts ago and it's currently sitting at the top of the page...

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