Remove special attributes from weps, they kill research lab

[Masyaka]

I put 5 ~50 DPS common chainguns and get 200 DPS uncommon one. :o

 

Then i try to put 5 ~100-200 DPS rare chainguns and the result is just damned 100 DPS EXCEPTIONAL CHAINGUUNNN :-\

 

THEN I PUT  3 300 DPS TESLAS AND THE RESULT IS EXCEPTIONAL 150 DPS THINGY  :-X

 

 

Its because these "+% DMG +% firerate" thingys. If the guns had their stats by rarity, but not by those things the lab would actually make sense.

 

Only sense i see is upgrading my ye olde iron exotic tech 9 turrets to tech 32 to significantly change DPS from 200 to 450

 

Upgrading guns without these "attributes" wont make any result. You put high-attribute things to get high-attribute things and reverse to get legendary high-tech trash.

Putting simple guns without attributes wont make any result, even if you push it to legendary.

Pls remove these attributes and make weps depend on rarity and tech ONLY

 

[Feye]

TL,DR:

Don't put turrets in the lab.

 

 

Well, as with all "loot" being generated, results from the research labs are also generated randomly.

The only things you can "enforce" is the type and rarity of the item produced, which both depend on what you put in.

 

Not sure if there's anything more to say about that.

But I'm kinda glad someone else experimented with that so I don't have to waste my own turrets ;)

[SageThe13th]

That's some serious all caps rage.

[Doc Savage NDMF]

It is infuriating to have a couple really adequate orange level turrets go in and produce one seriously mediocre purple waste product.

 

It's also a truly joyous experience to put in three lousy chain guns and get a really high end never ever never ever ever never going to upgrade that puppy no sir no how no way blow the planets off their orbits one.

 

I hate random personally. Especially in the game's "research" capacity. It makes no sense. I play turret bingo every time I shoot something. That's enough random for ten people.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask that the game follow a couple simple rules when "upgrading" to help something in the whole armament world make some sense.

 

Don't mind the special add-ons though. Makes each one just a little different, which is OK with me. 

 

Cheers..!

[Masyaka]

 

Don't mind the special add-ons though. Makes each one just a little different, which is OK with me. 

 

Cheers..!

 

 

You think an +50% Firerate/DMG attribute for a 200 DPS default gun is just a little? Im getting another 100 DPS chaingun with those attributes and its OP. Same goes too 500 DPS teslas with +dmg, 200 DPS plasmas with 3x dmg to shields will make 600.

Meanwhile plasma upgraded from common to legendary will never match a gun with 3x dmg to shields.

 

So maybe add a feature in research lab to add these attributes to made item in exchange to additional 6th or 7th items placed in?

[Sable Phoenix]

I agree with this.  There is far too much RNG in this game, and the way weapons are generated is probably the worst example of it.

[cy414]

the fact that i can choose between a gun with a 300% rof bonus and no penalty or a 'burst fire' gun that is close to that rof but shuts down after 5 seconds was one of my first concerns about game balance.

[Doc Savage NDMF]

 

You think an +50% Firerate/DMG attribute for a 200 DPS default gun is just a little? Im getting another 100 DPS chaingun with those attributes and its OP. Same goes too 500 DPS teslas with +dmg, 200 DPS plasmas with 3x dmg to shields will make 600.

Meanwhile plasma upgraded from common to legendary will never match a gun with 3x dmg to shields.

 

So maybe add a feature in research lab to add these attributes to made item in exchange to additional 6th or 7th items placed in?

 

As long as those guns are used on the AI ships against me, not really. And that's the sticking point I have with all the extra numbers. Unfortunately, until I can laser off a specific gun and find out if the AI are getting nicer weapons or just a bunch of generic base models I can't tell if those big numbers are just player only.

 

I do understand the reasoning of your complaint, but I also understand the happy of actually getting something worthwhile from the drops or research. Most times I'm getting generic filler, so that one OP 500 DPS Iron chain gun I get sees a ton of action...

 

It should be noted I don't use the turret builder, it's way to easy to mash an OP turret together. That places a limit on the OP turrets I get. I don't use the lightning or Teslas, they look silly to me, so I can't comment on those.

 

I agree that there is work needed to be done on this whole system.

First and foremost is limiting the RNG factors. I want some control over what comes out at a Research Facility for starters. 

Secondly a need for AI to have some of these weapons to force the player to build a ship that can take damage and to use actual tactics when fighting.

It's one thing to sacrifice a few turrets to build a tank, another to just tank everything and sit there and shoot with no fear of ever going down in a fight.

 

However, I also don't want to get to a place where all the guns are the same or have very minor differences.

There's something to having "treasured" finds and weapons. The game has them right now and I like that about it.

 

Cheers..! 

[Spacefaring_Guy]

1. Drops should be a percentage chance from the pool of items attached to the ship or station.  Possibly also slightly degraded due to battle damage.

 

2. Research should build a pool of attributes from everything in the source slots, and assign a probability to them based on how many slots contain them.  Material, DPS, independent targeting, overheat, vs. hull bonus, vs. shield bonus, range bonus, etc.  The resulting upgrade should have a chance of being one level higher based on the number of source items (as now), and IF that level bump happens, DPS should get bumped with it.  And it should be more restrictive about inputs - turrets or upgrades, they should all have to be the same type.

 

And while we're at it... research should cost money (though not much, because you're donating five parts for one back), and the research facility should send the plans to all turret factories and equipment docks in their faction, so you start seeing the new parts appearing on their ships.  Because why would they keep the data your little secret?

 

[Masyaka]

How about these special attributes will be put on only legendary stuff? Like those (needs balancing 100%)

 

Plasmas should always have 2.5x damage to shield at all rarities, and legendarys will have 3.2x

Finally a reason to put in 100 common plasmas and get a shield overkiller.

 

Cannons at legendarys will have bigger AOE and will be like one-shot kill to unshielded xsotan.

Cannons are cheap at equipment dock so...

 

Chainguns, lasers and teslas will have simple bonuses of shield penterations, DPS incrase and range.

Yes, they always drop and need an use

 

Mining turrets at legendary will always have 40% or 50% efficency and be energy-soaking super-DPS things to overkill 100k asteroids and be more useful than salvaging scrapyards.

 

Salvaging legendarys same always 50% or 60% eff and instakill to technical blocks (shield gens, power gens, power storages)

 

Legendary rockets will always be lock-on and come in 2 types: swarm and one-hit-kill, will penterate shields alot.

Nobody ever uses rockets, yeah!

 

Legendary railguns will penterate shields with high chance but overheat quickly. Same OHK.

Noobdy uses railguns, except those overkills from turret factories

[ReBoot]

Hi Masyaka,

we have the researchstation on our server modded, to do something similar what you wanted. Turrets drop with normal stats, with the default generation, but if you put them into an research-station, a rarity-factor (commom = 1 to legendary = 6) is applied. Currently all turret DPS and turret size are multiplied by the rarity.

For example: If you research five white turrets (rarityfactor 1) into one green turret (rarityfactor 2), a default green turret would be generated with doubled DPS. Green to blue would generate a default blue one with DPS*3 and so on.

 

We also changed the research results for some turret types:

 

Mining / Salvaging Lasers:

Range: 0.75 km to 1.5 km multiplied by rarityfactor (Legendary 4.5 km to 9 km)

Eff: not entirely sure about the values, but legendary can roll up to 100%

 

Rocket Launchers:

Now have an 75% chance to roll with "Guided Missiles"

Rocketspeed is currently fixed to 2000m/s

Firerate is equal to the rarity-factor, so 1 shot/s to 6 shot/s

 

Balancing is currently a bit off, but due to the increasing turretsize (common 1x1 to legendary 6x6) bigger ships are needed to fit the turrets. Also all turrets from the researchstation currently have independent targeting, but I plan to change that to an 50% chance.

 

The nice thing is, that you only need to change the server, not the client and it's still working.

 

I would open a thread in the modding section, if you are interested.

 

 

[Warrax]

Yes, yes.  All good points.

 

However, i like "Random".  And here's why.

 

I would not typically gamble with good stats, good feature weapons.

 

Instead, the Lab is my opportunity to grind up all the garbage i pick up, and have a fresh chance for something cool.

 

Please.  Do not change a thing :)