Turrets' future, the poll

[Ohm is Futile]

Alright, first, I'd like to point out that apparently Koonschi has decided to work on turret blueprints. Details are unknown as far as I know, correct me below if I'm wrong.

 

Second, this does not aim to be a debate, but rather a poll to know where people stand. There is an active and detailed debate here: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,2236.0.html

 

This is simply what I gathered from weeks of reading posts about turrets. This way people know, at least in terms of concepts, what has already been proposed. This avoids repetition and allows people to give their opinion without having to read half a dozen threads and probably close to a hundred posts.

 

Details about each options:

 

Option #1

Diablo-like, A-RPG style mechanics similar to what is already in-game. Basically, voting for this would be the same as saying that you like hunting for equipment and turrets and would prefer to do away with any crafting mechanics.

 

Option #2

For convenience and aesthetics, you would like to be able to choose at least how your turrets look by designing empty shells block by block or through picking a model within a list (list could be expandable through modding and such). Placing these designs would allow you to drag and drop the current RNG-generated turrets into them so that they have those properties, but look better or fit with your ship's style and looks. This could also be dumbed down to placing ghost images of turrets and having an interface to quickly drag and drop turrets onto those ghost images for quality of life regarding changing your loadout.

 

Option #3

This option is essentially what we currently have, with or without tweaks such as "blueprinting" turrets to reproduce RNG-generated turrets at turret factories, having the ability to place ghost blocks that generate slots to drag and drop turrets for easier placement/replacement or rebalancing the current drop/crafting system.

 

Option #4

Turrets would still be separate entities from ships that you can slap on surfaces, but you would have an interface/build mode similar to what we have for ships. Block placement/stats/volume would dictate the stats and then you could put them on your ship for a credit and material cost. The game would need another procedural generation script to outfit NPC ships and to sell pre-made turrets/designs at equipment docks.

 

Option #5

Merge ship building and turret building. You get weapon blocks that affect how it will behave. The best way to illustrate that is to look at "From the Depths". You can go from making the core of your ship a weapon that fires directly forward to anywhere like small turrets with custom firing arcs, range, ammo, damage, fire rate, etc. The would also need another/a new procedural generation script to outfit NPC ships.

 

 

Again, not posting this to create a debate or discuss details of how to implement each option, but I'm curious as to what our local forum dwellers would prefer.

 

I set the poll to run for a week starting now (March 1st) and set it to one vote max. You can view results after voting, I don't want current results to skew your opinion. Be careful, I did not allow to change options.

 

 

[War Viper]

Option 3 was my choice with some minor tweaks. Mostly I just want to be able to take one of my turrets and place it into a factory and be able to replicate an exact copy of it if I have the proper crafting materials. Oh and some resizing options as well.

[WARGAMES]

I prefer option 3, mostly because it has some of both worlds and the possibility of blueprinting rng drops could be a thing.

[LogicSocket]

Frankly I think building turrets like we do with ship blocks. Have basic building blocks for the turrets and then in ships system you can slot new turret system cards for various effects and damage and range and etc.

[LoSboccacc]

building turrets always get messy, so no block based turret building. sure they look better and cover a multitude more of roles that way, but look at from the depth and starmade: there you spend hours building and you never get to the part where you enjoy the game.

 

the current system for turret is fine. if anything they could add weapon blocks - unturretted blocks that fire in a specific direction, dps based on volume, so that people could tune the weapon they have without getting messy with details.

 

anything that touches the topic of sub-entities, docking, self collision, hp-pool etc really kills accessibility

[Ohm is Futile]

building turrets always get messy, so no block based turret building. sure they look better and cover a multitude more of roles that way, but look at from the depth and starmade: there you spend hours building and you never get to the part where you enjoy the game.

 

the current system for turret is fine. if anything they could add weapon blocks - unturretted blocks that fire in a specific direction, dps based on volume, so that people could tune the weapon they have without getting messy with details.

 

anything that touches the topic of sub-entities, docking, self collision, hp-pool etc really kills accessibility

I tend to agree with you, though, I have to admit that I very much understand the appeal of "moar customization!"

 

I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a filthy casual in terms of play time and a block-by-block system would essentially keep me from playing the game.

 

Frankly I think building turrets like we do with ship blocks. Have basic building blocks for the turrets and then in ships system you can slot new turret system cards for various effects and damage and range and etc.

I see your point, as much as I would love to go on crazy theory crafting tangents to create custom weapons and try them out, the added complexity and time investment would also kill it for me.

 

Anyways, as I said, I don't intend to start a debate, I'm just curious of people's opinion on the matter and I have to say that I'm surprised by how one-sided the poll is right now. It doesn't seem to reflect the debate that's been going on around turrets. It's still early, though.

[GrimJahk]

#2 Here.

 

I dislike needing to enter build mode to change out turrets. I want hardpoints (blocks) that allow me to change out turrets from a management screen.

 

When you save your current ship design it loses the turret info, so having hardpoints would be a great fix IMO

 

 

NOTE: you left out of the option list the currently mentioned integration of blueprints... Which I love... I hope that kills the need to play cargo hauler for hours on end ;-)

[Brigadon]

I kinda like 2 or 3, but like the poster before me said, I like the idea of changeable menu turrets where you place... say... a block to determine the size of the Turret.

 

That way you could still go with the diablo-esque outfitting, with customizing (Hopefully better customizing) at turret factories, no over the top time investments, and yet you could pick your size and Aesthetic.

 

Given all things, you might even make it like fighter bays, where you could add more weapons to a particular hardpoint so those gigantic guns actually do something.

 

But I really like your weapon models, and while the size is clearly subject to change, I don't want to lose what you have already made...

 

 

If you have a cuistom weapon in mind, perhaps you could allow people that 'want to go deeper' and design custom weapons the ability to do it at the turret factories? Or make a custom Turret factory that players alone can build...

[SageThe13th]

#2 Here.

 

I dislike needing to enter build mode to change out turrets. I want hardpoints (blocks) that allow me to change out turrets from a management screen.

 

When you save your current ship design it loses the turret info, so having hardpoints would be a great fix IMO

 

 

NOTE: you left out of the option list the currently mentioned integration of blueprints... Which I love... I hope that kills the need to play cargo hauler for hours on end ;-)

 

A turret mount system would also be useful for mass production.  Making not only the space frame but, also having it come equipped with systems and turrets right out of the shipyard.

[Zistack]

I'd like to note that this poll will be biased against change, as the people playing the game and participating on the forums are going to be the ones who like the game as it is.  Unfortunately, predicting how many future users a feature will earn is very difficult.  The best strategy (for a developer) is ultimately to make decisions like this based on the project's philosophy - AKA, the developer's "vision" - with the caveat that you don't want to do anything so crazy that noone will want to be a user, but I think we can all agree that none of these ideas are at that extreme.

 

TL;DR: This poll will be biased, and therefore next to useless.  Besides, Avorion is not a democracy, nor should it be.

[Ohm is Futile]

NOTE: you left out of the option list the currently mentioned integration of blueprints... Which I love... I hope that kills the need to play cargo hauler for hours on end ;-)

I'm not sure what you mean by that, especially since in my detailed list, I do mention blueprint in option 3 and option 4 practically makes some blueprint implementation mandatory.

 

I do agree with you about the need for a better system to manage equipped turrets/weapons.

 

I kinda like 2 or 3, but like the poster before me said, I like the idea of changeable menu turrets where you place... say... a block to determine the size of the Turret.

Perhaps I didn't phrase option 2 very well. It does not exclude the creation of a management screen nor of a placeholder block to make swapping easier and faster. What I intended option 2 to mean compared to 3 is that players wouldn't have a crafting system that influences the stats of weapons, only its looks.

 

That's the main difference. Option 3 is there for people who'd like some control over the stats of their turrets without having a block-by-block system, be it separate from ship building or integrated in it.

 

TL;DR: This poll will be biased, and therefore next to useless.  Besides, Avorion is not a democracy, nor should it be.

Where do I state that I intended the poll to overrule any decision Koonschi has made or will make about turret mechanics? I fully expect him to make his own decision, as he has been, but to at least consider the player base's opinion, as he has also been doing. I'm just trying to satisfy my own curiosity with this poll and perhaps help Koonschi have a better idea of where players stand.

 

The best strategy (for a developer) is ultimately to make decisions like this based on the project's philosophy - AKA, the developer's "vision" - with the caveat that you don't want to do anything so crazy that noone will want to be a user, but I think we can all agree that none of these ideas are at that extreme.

I do, wholeheartedly, agree with this!

 

I'd like to note that this poll will be biased against change, as the people playing the game and participating on the forums are going to be the ones who like the game as it is.

That, I will disagree with. Perhaps it's "case study" type of thing, but I am my own example here. I joined this forum to suggest things, not to be a complete fanboy. Although, I will admit that I like to express my enthusiasm and agreement when something pleases me.

 

Anyways, I don't think the bias, if any, will be such that this poll won't be worth anything.

[LordMaddog]

building turrets always get messy, so no block based turret building. sure they look better and cover a multitude more of roles that way, but look at from the depth and starmade: there you spend hours building and you never get to the part where you enjoy the game.

 

the current system for turret is fine. if anything they could add weapon blocks - unturretted blocks that fire in a specific direction, dps based on volume, so that people could tune the weapon they have without getting messy with details.

 

anything that touches the topic of sub-entities, docking, self collision, hp-pool etc really kills accessibility

 

I agree and don't agree.

 

Those crazy block messes the other games have are well crazy I have spent endless hours messing with them Like my ship THE BEAM http://www.fromthedepthsgame.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=24737 for from the depths. And I have to say they are just overly complicated.

 

This game don't need that but it dose need block made weapons and while I know I have posted it before t I really think the way to go is to add 1 new block JUST 1 for each weapon type.

 

These blocks would work off of this simple principle.

The width and height of the block will determine its energy efficiency and max aim angle.

However the larger the block the slower the aiming speed. So big block might be able to shoot at an almost 360° angle and have excellent energy efficiency but it will take forever for it to turn and track its target. For missiles on the other hand the larger the slower they move.

 

 

The length of the block will determine its range and accuracy.

For missiles it would determinant their lock on maneuverability.

 

 

Once placed in the build mode a new UI option would let the player adjust its fire rate and damage. The higher the DPS the more power draw according to the width and the height of the block.

 

With this method its SUPER simple and at the same time lets player have complete design freedom.

 

[Thundercraft]

Just my two cents:

 

I think the current system is great. If anything needs changing, perhaps allow some RNG turrets near the core to (randomly) appear at slightly higher levels than present.

 

Also, I think that if turrets were changed to either an RNG-only or a crafting-only system, then a significant number of players would probably become bored with Avorion and leave.

 

The element of discovery and anticipation in finding a particularly good turret (or module) from a random drop has a certain, very strong appeal. And being able to craft turrets has it's own appeal. There's also the element of discovery in finding a turret factory that is capable of producing particularly nice turrets.

 

This element of discovery and anticipation is a strong driving force to encourage and reward players for exploring. And the drive to find good drops encourages players to fight and to salvage. This rewards different play styles and helps with game balance.

 

Perhaps there is something to be said for adding a system to allow players to really customize the look of turrets. But, IMO, that would add complexity to Avorion that some would probably find unnecessary. Also, the devs can only achieve so much between now and when the game reaches 1.0 status in Q3 2017. There are probably changes and player requests which would be more appreciated by the majority. Fighter customization comes to mind, sort of like the Custom Fighter mod meets Build Mode...

 

TL;DR: This poll will be biased, and therefore next to useless.  Besides, Avorion is not a democracy, nor should it be.

 

Excellent points. I agree.

[AikawaKizuna]

I think the turret system what we have now is well enough though, Avorion has its own features.

It is not necessary to change it.It just needs adjustment and improvement.

My opinion is, the turrets should get a larger block size and slower their turn rates when the tech rate  meets 30 and above.(Even uses more turret slots if necessary. Larger the size of a turret it suppose to be more fire power long range in one shot as main cannon on battleships.)

Like we can get a 1.8 sized force gun turret in tech 35 made in Xenion now, why should weapon turrets remained 0.5 in size?

If we have several 5x2x5 Cannon or railgun turrets in size, we can do ship models as capitals or line ships.

This should limit high damage turrets on small ships and high damage small weapons to easily hit small and fast ships.

And if a large ship wants to install small and fast turrets as "point defense", lower tech or lower class material made turrets shall in place.(To make the items in early gaming are not littered as the game processed. Of course the AI should do more works making enemies and captained ships fights as they supposed to. Such as large ships tend to stand fire weapons at longest range as well as the small ships circles the targets at full speed or do spiral maneuver, should flee if they are damaged enough etc.)

 

Then, implemented directional mounted large capital weapons and torpedoes as wiki said.

What I think the cap weapons should only mounted on large capital ships so the turret slot for it should independent.When ur ship have 7 slots or 8 (or what ever should call a capital, there can be a standard) more, then 1 slot for cap weapons will appear by default.(ps: It will be amazing if we can have a cap weapon linked glow block in our ships design. The block keep dark usually until your main capital weapon prepared to fire, the glow blocks start to glow from your ship tail to the weapon muzzle.Not necessary but cool :P :P :P)

Torpedoes can be act the same way as the normal turrets but as they are supposed to do huge damage, they should have very low firing rate and use 2 or more turret slots for 1 torpedo launcher install on ship. Torpedo launcher should differs from missile or rocket they are not turret mounted so launcher cannot turn, fire to the direction that player placed them.

[Ohm is Futile]

So the poll has closed and we got 40 votes. Not necessarily the most statistically significant number, but it's a start.

 

57,5% of people voted for a system similar to what we have currently, with potential tweaks.

 

The remaining 42,5% is split between all the other options with no clear preference, although there is a trend towards the options that add more blocks and player control over the turrets' stats.

 

Even if we go as far as adding more or less 25% of the current votes towards each option to account for potential bias, I think it's safe to say that out of the 40 people who voted, people would be happy with a system similar to what we have, but would like a bit more control over the aesthetics and stats of turrets.

 

As such, I guess that Koonschi's blueprinting feature should satisfy a fair share of the community, especially if it comes with potential tweaks/modding ability. I'm no expert in statistics, though, so feel free to comment.