Gyros Please?

[MrVorgra]

It would be great if I could sacrifice 1000 Cargo or so for another 0.03Rad/s in pitch and yaw

 

Because currently my ship is littered with thrusters.

In the below picture the Blue filled squares are thrusters used for pitch and yaw

In the below picture the Pink filled squares are thrusters used for braking

 

Please note, that the boxes only define one side of the ship, so double what you see here.

Now I do know that the position of the thrusters determine their effectiveness, I have been going through this ship since beta release and have managed to raise my Rads in all statistics to what you see in the picture.

 

I can't really lighten the vessel much more than I have, I need some mass to counter the recoil of the cannons, currently an alpha volley to port or starboard with 0 elevation can rotate my vessel as much as 45 degrees before the thrusters kill all rotational speeds.

 

And also I need that mass so I can punt small asteroids and ships out of my glorious path.

 

I'm genuinely not asking for anything overkill, as I have looked into booms that stick out, with thrusters on the end, however It constantly crosses my mind of how illogical that much thrust on the end of even a bulky boom would just snap it off.

 

Considering 1 newton accelerates 1kg at 1m/s^2, I just can't see booms like that supporting 100'000s of newtons.

 

I really don't want to hide thrusters, as I do enjoy the realism of have them actually facing outside the vessel.

 

 

It Would be nice to see a Gryo block that would increase ships rotational speeds by a few 0.0Xrad/s, nothing overtly overpowered.

 

So I do know you are looking into Gyros, And they would be greatly appreciated, however I am not going to wait around for them, I am thinking ill try and find areas that I can dig into the vessel a bit to give some of the thrusters more volume, without sacrificing the realism.

[JimBob]

I agree that something more is needed to boost rotation. The way thrusters are working at the moment you need way more thrusers to gain rotation than you do to gain forwards, backwards and sidewards movement (To the extent where you need to dedicate most of your ship from the ground up to rotational thrusters if you want high rads)

 

Note: Im happy to dedicate a good amount of a ship i want to be manauverable to acheiving that goal, just saying that the ratios for different types of movement dont feel quite right.

[gblnk]

I can't really lighten the vessel much more than I have, I need some mass to counter the recoil of the cannons, currently an alpha volley to port or starboard with 0 elevation can rotate my vessel as much as 45 degrees before the thrusters kill all rotational speeds.

 

And also I need that mass so I can punt small asteroids and ships out of my glorious path.

 

Well, I think I found the problem. If cannons cause too much recoil, don't use them. And if you can't be bothered to steer around asteroids, then you're just going to have to live with poor handling. That's not a problem with game mechanics.

[Ohm is Futile]

You can check in more depth what I think about gyros here, but...

http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,2062.msg11435.html#msg11435

 

I know how gorgeous that ship is, but you do seem to have a fair amount of thrusters closer to the center of mass than they need to be.

 

Even trying to guesstimate the proportion of thruster volume to everything else volume, it feels like it's not that big of a percentage of your ship.

 

[...]

I really don't want to hide thrusters, as I do enjoy the realism of have them actually facing outside the vessel.

[...]

So don't hide all of them?

 

Also, did you switch some thrusters to directional thrusters? Well placed, they will do a lot more for your ship than the regular ones can ever hope to accomplish.

 

I agree that something more is needed to boost rotation. The way thrusters are working at the moment you need way more thrusers to gain rotation than you do to gain forwards, backwards and sidewards movement (To the extent where you need to dedicate most of your ship from the ground up to rotational thrusters if you want high rads)

 

Note: Im happy to dedicate a good amount of a ship i want to be manauverable to acheiving that goal, just saying that the ratios for different types of movement dont feel quite right.

I agree that some ratios feel off. Rotation and max velocity vs forwards thrust come to mind, although the latter seems okay judging by the screenshot(but it's also true that we have no idea how much volume is spent on engines).

 

Well, I think I found the problem. If cannons cause too much recoil, don't use them. And if you can't be bothered to steer around asteroids, then you're just going to have to live with poor handling. That's not a problem with game mechanics.

OH! Ooooh~ Oh, I know, use the cannons to steer!

[MrVorgra]

Well, I think I found the problem. If cannons cause too much recoil, don't use them. And if you can't be bothered to steer around asteroids, then you're just going to have to live with poor handling. That's not a problem with game mechanics.

 

I think you found a phantom problem, to counter recoil besides using mass I simply fire at an angle where the recoil can be adequately compensated via thrust or where the recoil is absorbed directly into the center of gravity, it's a non-issue.

 

And Who wouldn't steer around asteroids, I have no issues what so ever steering around asteroids, It can always be better, and yes I can't always be bothered steering around tiny asteroids, Because I can, and because I HAVE the mass to punt them out of the way and not go splat like tiny mosquito ships do.

RAMMING SPEED! Yes I do this more than I should, but I designed it to absorb impacts and flake away the damage, and its awesome to send ships tumbling out of control or just flat out explode

 

Anyway.... At no point did I state there was a problem with the game mechanics, I requested more mechanics..... Anyway onto the good stuff

 

 

I know how gorgeous that ship is, but you do seem to have a fair amount of thrusters closer to the center of mass than they need to be.

 

Even trying to guesstimate the proportion of thruster volume to everything else volume, it feels like it's not that big of a percentage of your ship.

 

I did a very rough cal based on the volume stat it shows when adding (as I had to remove and rotate many of them to directional thrusters), and it was approx 10% of volume, definitly not 10% of mass though, There is quite a lot, they just arn't visible in the picture, the ship itself is pseudo hollow which has allowed some pretty darn decent sized directional thrusters, and yes those ones in the center (which although look the largest are infact the smaller portion of thrusters) are sort of redundent, however they did supposedly add to the rotation, and I already had them there so why the fuck not.

 

But yes, I'm not after gyros to become my source of rotation speed, but to supplement my current use of directional thrusters, and I don't really see the need to strafe in large ships due to my ability to tank, and due to there being no added benefit to fixing weapons into a certain direction.

 

I feel it would be a nice addition to players ships Center of Mass, another design factor we can use to build our ships around.

 

So don't hide all of them?

 

None of them are hidden, obviously they are hidden in the picture due to the boxes everywhere.

 

Also, did you switch some thrusters to directional thrusters? Well placed, they will do a lot more for your ship than the regular ones can ever hope to accomplish.

 

Yes, I have done that, that is how I gained the stats currently, its funny, before actually placing a thruster of X size, and X rotation, you can move it around your ship and the stats constantly update, you get some strange stats in locations you wouldn't expect.

 

OH! Ooooh~ Oh, I know, use the cannons to steer!

 

 

So do I, well I don't when navigating, but I do use it to rapidly traverse in combat, I even plan ahead my next target or take oppertune moments to re-orientate, albeit I'm limited to only set angles cause physics..

 

[Ohm is Futile]

I know how gorgeous that ship is, but you do seem to have a fair amount of thrusters closer to the center of mass than they need to be.

 

Even trying to guesstimate the proportion of thruster volume to everything else volume, it feels like it's not that big of a percentage of your ship.

 

I did a very rough cal based on the volume stat it shows when adding (as I had to remove and rotate many of them to directional thrusters), and it was approx 10% of volume, definitly not 10% of mass though, There is quite a lot, they just arn't visible in the picture, the ship itself is pseudo hollow which has allowed some pretty darn decent sized directional thrusters, and yes those ones in the center (which although look the largest are infact the smaller portion of thrusters) are sort of redundent, however they did supposedly add to the rotation, and I already had them there so why the fuck not.

 

But yes, I'm not after gyros to become my source of rotation speed, but to supplement my current use of directional thrusters, and I don't really see the need to strafe in large ships due to my ability to tank, and due to there being no added benefit to fixing weapons into a certain direction.

 

I feel it would be a nice addition to players ships Center of Mass, another design factor we can use to build our ships around.

Hmm. One thing you can do and might already be doing is focusing on two axis rather than three. Specifically, if you ship can roll, it doesn't matter as much if either pitch or yaw is bad as long as one is good enough, because then all you need to do is roll like a plane to maneuver.

 

Anyways, generally speaking, I tend to prefer to have fewer blocks with more applications than the opposite. In that sense, I feel that gyros are unnecessary. However, I can see the purpose in making aesthetically pleasing designs a bit more maneuverable without having to concern oneself with thruster placement as much.

 

Then again, it's hard to judge whether or not your ship should be able to turn/accelerate better. The problem is that with different materials comes different densities and as such you need to adjust thruster volume to ship mass rather than comparing volume to volume or mass to mass since thrusters don't perform better with higher tier materials.

 

So don't hide all of them?

 

None of them are hidden, obviously they are hidden in the picture due to the boxes everywhere.

I meant to place more inside the hull, just not all of them. That way your ship has visible thrusters, but has extra thrust coming from concealed thrusters. Hopefully, that allows you to reach your functionality thresholds and retain the aesthetics.

[MrVorgra]

Yeah I understand you, Each to their own, for me (as you probably would have noticed) I like complexity, that isn't complicated, OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS!.

 

I did do some rotating of some directional thrusters near the center of the vessel, oddly enough, they seem to be acting backwards, thrusters that would increase Yaw, where increasing pitch.... Might just be a visual bug.

 

Yeah, when Koonschi first released this beta I was rolling, then pitching/yawing, for some reason, even though both had only .01 rads, rolling caused the vessel to rotate a fair bit more than if you where just attempting to rotate on just one axis, and another thing that was happening was that if you didn't at least roll a little bit the ship wouldn't even respond to a rotation command on one axis, thrusters would fire but nothing, It seems that has dissappeared, so maybe if you are below a value of Rad/s it plays up a bit.

 

I also found a thruster that I could sacrafice about 300 cargo to be able to keep the thruster on the outside, but still have the volume going into the vessel significantly more than it previously did, that gave me an additional Pitch.

 

 

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If I where building a space ship in IRL, I would go for gyros, no fuel mass required. (guess that's why the ISS uses them to rotate and only uses its monoprop thrusters to keep it from loosing altitude.

[Enzo Matrix]

So... I made a nice big ship before this update.. had to load the heck out of it with directional thrusters.. sadly it ruined the design for the bottom lol.

 

I hope it will be easier to achieve these kind of stats for the thrusters since I am quite happy with the control of my ship at these levels. But had to use ALOT of big directional thrusters lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can atleast fly much easier now! .. Costed me 131,828 trinium, 492,669 xanion. Took awhile but finally bought it lol

[acc]

Hide thrusters somewhere. They will still magically function. There you have gyros :)

[Ohm is Futile]

Hide thrusters somewhere. They will still magically function. There you have gyros :)

Yeah, except thruster placement matters.

 

@MrVorgra Yeah, but we already don't use fuel anyway, so gyro or thruster consuming electricity... result's the same.

[MrVorgra]

Yeah, I think it would be neat if we had a type of thruster that used fuel (albeit not ridiculous consumption so you don't have to always worry) but have the added benefit of more thrust for a given space.

[Fidtz]

Yeah, I think it would be neat if we had a type of thruster that used fuel (albeit not ridiculous consumption so you don't have to always worry) but have the added benefit of more thrust for a given space.

 

Maybe an option to overdrive, heating up the thrusters for a limited amount of time until the overdrive cuts out due to overheating.

[MrVorgra]

Thats effectively what we have now, except it uses no tangible fuel, just energy, I'm opting for a thruster that uses fuel you need to store on board.

[starikki]

I think a fare tweak of the game would be making the thrusters 10x more powerful, while draining 20x energy when its being used