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koonschi

Beta Branch Patchnotes 0.10.4.7565

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As stated in the patch notes, you'll have to rebuild your ship. With correct placement of thrusters you should be able to get a normal ship flight feeling. And please stop thinking that I don't update anything any more once a patch is live. I'm doing the exact opposite in fact: I put it live in beta so you can give feedback.

 

Also: Previously rotational speed was artificially increased to be 6 times as strong as it should be. I simply removed/fixed this.

 

more like put more thrusters near ends of our ships :) found out nice buff of rotation speed etc (0.4r/s).. just by puttin a thruster near the end back of a ship... 2/3 of the ship size thruster one:) now how do I make it now work with it.. hmm..

Just saying I get the thinking of it.. and I love the fact you need to build thruster much further from centre mass.. yet.. hate the fact 1/3 of my ship have to be thruster just to make it turn somewhat nice (and I actually like the very slow moving big ships.. yet with so much thruster and I still have problems to move around with it?)

And I dont want to know what "square" shape ship builders think of it.. while more.. "longer" ships have option to put at the each end more thrusters.. a big ones ;x

 

Im just.. not sure about those changes.. and ofcourse the fact we cant just put so OP engines instead of thrusters.. and that we cant "turn off" thrusters fumes :)

 

AAND ofcourse dont get me as a hater1 :) already 121h ingame.. and will still grow for sure :) and I love this game :) just.. there are some stuff I would wish .. jsut wish.. :)

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I like the patch, even if i didn't tried it yet, but mostly, i like your feedback on our keedbacks, Koonshi.

I registered in may 2016, and i think you are doing a great work with the communication so far.

 

 

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Also: Previously rotational speed was artificially increased to be 6 times as strong as it should be. I simply removed/fixed this.

 

Oh wow, 6 times? Geez :-D I think that less artifical improvements are good, shame that it blocked all my designs from turning so suddenly xD can't even use new retrograde mechanics as I simply can't turn any of my ships anymore. Let's get rebuilding :-P

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Flying into asteroid and debris fields are going to feel a lot like driving into a school zone. You're going to be going slow, and you're going to be making a lot of fine adjustments to not hit every single one of them. That's what space is.

 

 

Funny...I thought space was more like: 

"Asteroids are not distributed uniformly in the asteroid belt, but could be approximated to be evenly spaced in a region from 2.2 AU (1 AU is 93 million miles, or the average distance between Earth and the Sun) to 3.2 AU from the Sun and extending 0.5 AU above and below the ecliptic (the plane of Earth's orbit, which is a convenient reference for the solar system). That yields a volume of roughly 16 cubic AU, or about 13 trillion trillion cubic miles. (Note: space is big!)"

 

edit: to be clear.  I am enjoying trying to adapt my ship to the new demands nonetheless.  It really does kinda make it challenging all over again (no sarcasm).  It took me some experimenting in creative mode to test the thrusters, but it seems they are bi-directional, not single directional? 

 

I always find there to be a slight difficulty on terms used, but love the game, keep the updates coming!

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Yeah well, hopefully it's not an accurate simulation, because i'm not sure i will have much fun flying several months IRL to reach anoher sector...

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agrr after some testing now im sure.. same ship (mining) 3.5 mil volume.. gets very easly stuck in astreoid fields while mining flown by AI captain .. a lot more ;x  Anyone else see the same? :x

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Flying into asteroid and debris fields are going to feel a lot like driving into a school zone. You're going to be going slow, and you're going to be making a lot of fine adjustments to not hit every single one of them. That's what space is.

 

 

Funny...I thought space was more like: 

"Asteroids are not distributed uniformly in the asteroid belt, but could be approximated to be evenly spaced in a region from 2.2 AU (1 AU is 93 million miles, or the average distance between Earth and the Sun) to 3.2 AU from the Sun and extending 0.5 AU above and below the ecliptic (the plane of Earth's orbit, which is a convenient reference for the solar system). That yields a volume of roughly 16 cubic AU, or about 13 trillion trillion cubic miles. (Note: space is big!)"

 

edit: to be clear.  I am enjoying trying to adapt my ship to the new demands nonetheless.  It really does kinda make it challenging all over again (no sarcasm).  It took me some experimenting in creative mode to test the thrusters, but it seems they are bi-directional, not single directional? 

 

I always find there to be a slight difficulty on terms used, but love the game, keep the updates coming!

 

Yeah, thrusters are now bidirectional, it always thrusts left+right, up+down. And they have 3x the effect in that direction than same size omni thruster, which is really neat.

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I am loving it... :)

 

Been burning around asteroid fields at highspeed all night yesterday in a very small ship. Soooo much fun to actually glide around them.

 

Also did the max values for pitch / roll / yaw increase? the buildmenu suggest so, since it now shows a max of 4°/sec of instead 2°/s as before?

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Only been playing for a few days and the flight mechanics already feel sooo much better after this update. Was already enjoying before but actually having to fly round asteroids is great. Engine and thruster changes make the building more intuitive too which is better for new players, although I am sad for some of the invalidated designs I can see on the forums.

 

I started with Elite and Frontier and Avorion is both brand new (ship building, multiplayer etc.) and very nostalgic in all the right ways. :D

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well, I think the thrusters got nerfed too much. to make my latest ship properly pitch and yaw again would mean I have to add some more huge thrusters. but the ship has already lots of thrusters, so it would ruin the entire design pretty much.

 

I do like the new physics tho, but thrusters need to get more power again or future ship designs will be thrusters only with a little bit other blocks inbetween. and I don't think that's a good thing for designs/the game in general.

 

so my testing result and opinion: keep the physics, but give the thrusters much more power.

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Also did the max values for pitch / roll / yaw increase? the buildmenu suggest so, since it now shows a max of 4°/sec of instead 2°/s as before?

I noticed my ship went up to 2.6 after the patch (and the rebuild), but had not tested the peak yet.  I am curious how this feels on a larger ship.  To have the 2.6, my large ship is over 50% thruster if I had to guess (now many of them directional).

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well, I think the thrusters got nerfed too much. to make my latest ship properly pitch and yaw again would mean I have to add some more huge thrusters. but the ship has already lots of thrusters, so it would ruin the entire design pretty much.

 

I do like the new physics tho, but thrusters need to get more power again or future ship designs will be thrusters only with a little bit other blocks inbetween. and I don't think that's a good thing for designs/the game in general.

 

so my testing result and opinion: keep the physics, but give the thrusters much more power.

 

Have you tried directional thrusters yet?

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well, I think the thrusters got nerfed too much. to make my latest ship properly pitch and yaw again would mean I have to add some more huge thrusters. but the ship has already lots of thrusters, so it would ruin the entire design pretty much.

 

I do like the new physics tho, but thrusters need to get more power again or future ship designs will be thrusters only with a little bit other blocks inbetween. and I don't think that's a good thing for designs/the game in general.

 

so my testing result and opinion: keep the physics, but give the thrusters much more power.

 

Have you tried directional thrusters yet?

ahm, yeah, kinda. but that would make it worse, because they have the same thrust as the omnidirectional thrusters. at least the patch notes say that. before the patch my ship had like ~ .2 rad/s in pitch and roll, now it's around .02 rad/s. with the new physics .2 would be already pretty bad, but .02 is just breaking it's functionality entirely. now I can brew coffee while the ship turns around :D

 

I'll definetly do more testing later, have to head off now.

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As stated in the patch notes, you'll have to rebuild your ship. With correct placement of thrusters you should be able to get a normal ship flight feeling. And please stop thinking that I don't update anything any more once a patch is live. I'm doing the exact opposite in fact: I put it live in beta so you can give feedback.

 

Also: Previously rotational speed was artificially increased to be 6 times as strong as it should be. I simply removed/fixed this.

 

Don't worry, you're doing a great job IMHO! People seem to forget that they are playing an early access game and that things change. I haven't played yet since this update but we all know the way thrusters used to work needed to change. Its just a matter of adapting to the changes.

 

That doesn't mean things can't be adjusted, that's why you give feedback. But don't just post angry on the forums saying how these changes ruined you game... beta is beta, things change.

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well, I think the thrusters got nerfed too much. to make my latest ship properly pitch and yaw again would mean I have to add some more huge thrusters. but the ship has already lots of thrusters, so it would ruin the entire design pretty much.

 

I do like the new physics tho, but thrusters need to get more power again or future ship designs will be thrusters only with a little bit other blocks inbetween. and I don't think that's a good thing for designs/the game in general.

 

so my testing result and opinion: keep the physics, but give the thrusters much more power.

 

Have you tried directional thrusters yet?

ahm, yeah, kinda. but that would make it worse, because they have the same thrust as the omnidirectional thrusters. at least the patch notes say that. before the patch my ship had like ~ .2 rad/s in pitch and roll, now it's around .02 rad/s. with the new physics .2 would be already pretty bad, but .02 is just breaking it's functionality entirely. now I can brew coffee while the ship turns around :D

 

I'll definetly do more testing later, have to head off now.

 

Directional thrusters sure have some overall power as standard, but it's power is focused to one direction (well two), so it's 3x as effective. This way, you can create brake thrusters at center of mass, and pitch /yawn thrusters on the edges of your ship for much increased power/weight efficiency of thrusters... Atleast I hope so, as my ships also stopped moving (0.01 pitch heh)

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Well, thruster changes aside, before it felt like your ship had no mass when you did a forward thrust. The physics changes makes so much more sense now. Perhaps there was a bug attached to it; whenever I needed to do a retrograde burn, I had to use thrust left/right/up/down otherwise I'd change direction nearly instantly which made no sense. Perhaps the thrusters had insane force, or your mass wasn't taken into action that much.

 

Still, as I've mentioned previously, liking the changes. I'm not expecting KSP levels of realism, but it was beyond arcade-y before. Now it feels just right for this game, in my opinion.

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I have been able to control my ship very well now. I realized you need to use directional thrusters both ways so your ship will stop while your turning lol. It working very well. I don't mind building new ships anyways lol.

 

For feedback, could we get aliens to be tougher and drop better weapons compared to pirates and also be able to surpass turret built stuff? I would love a good challenge with knowing there could be an awesome reward for it :)

 

I get sad when I get exotic or even legendary and a built exceptional is still 5 times better at same tech level. Thats my feedback for item wise.

Keep up the great work!

 

Also THANK YOU for apply plan no longer gives a huge stat reduction! I can rest easy now! lol

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Been testing it, and after a bit of reconfiguring with the new thrusters, the turning and braking performance is fine. However, the main issue that I think people will have is the inertia. A ship moving in one direction just keeps going and going and going. I tripled the number of engines I use in order to combat this in a retrograde turn, and it helps a bit. But I think there needs to be more drag on the ship, i.e. it slows down faster in the absence of thrust being applied. Perhaps this could be a server setting so that those that want more realism can adjust it, or maybe a piece of equipment called an "inertial dampener" you could put on in place of a turret.

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the name of this update should be ''Drifting in the 90's''. it feels like as long as i don't build my ship OUT OF thruster blocks i'll be drifting like takumi. Actually there are a couple of things i want to add. if thrusters eat MORE energy while giving LESS than engines... who in the right mind would use thrusters instead of engines! it doesn't seem realistic to me. and can we get our ships to be transparent when the camera ''gets too close''? because while aiming if the enemy is on* my up or down i cant even see them to shoot them. and broadsiding in this game is not practical because when i place 1 turret.. i just place it THERE and not 1 for each side. this may seem whiny but they seem to be more of problems rather than design choices.

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I'll weigh in and say I liked the simplified (and "unrealistic") flight features of before this patch. Simply adding directional thrusters to that build would be ideal IMO (this is the perfect answer to the pancake thruster problem).

 

I honestly don't understand the fixation with the retrograde burn, which seems to be a big motivation for many of the latest changes. Of course it is "more realistic," but we're already so far from meaningful realism I think the game should just own it and make it fun.

 

The idea of making a very sleek sci fi ship that you might find in Star Wars, Star Trek, etc... and then rotating 180 degrees to retrograde burn every time you need to stop from any significant speed I find to be ridiculous.

 

I want to be able to zip around through asteroid fields and around ships and stations in any ship I make, as long as it can rotate fast enough. It becomes increasingly difficult to rotate large ships quickly enough for them to be this agile, and that is what should keep it balanced.

 

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Perhaps a separate Arcade mode with old physics and overpowered thrusters would be good to appease the crowd that wants some casual space fun, and then the Hardcore mode with more realistic physics for the people that like engineering practical ships and doing manuevers.

 

I, for one, really enjoy refitting and redesigning my ships to make them work with new physics rules

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Perhaps a separate Arcade mode with old physics and overpowered thrusters would be good to appease the crowd that wants some casual space fun, and then the Hardcore mode with more realistic physics for the people that like engineering practical ships and doing manuevers.

so practical ships eh? like how real life space ships would be?... hmm.. then you can forget about shields fighting trading and all that good stuff that makes this game a sandbox universe.  just make a small crew quarters with some computers cores and thrusters attached to it aaaand you have a realistic space station.

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Perhaps a separate Arcade mode with old physics and overpowered thrusters would be good to appease the crowd that wants some casual space fun, and then the Hardcore mode with more realistic physics for the people that like engineering practical ships and doing manuevers.

so practical ships eh? like how real life space ships would be?... hmm.. then you can forget about shields fighting trading and all that good stuff that makes this game a sandbox universe.  just make a small crew quarters with some computers cores and thrusters attached to it aaaand you have a realistic space station.

 

Considering that these ships are built in space, they don't have to be delivered to orbit, and also will never see atmospheric flight- There are not a whole lot of constraints needed here, except for balancing center of thrust with center of mass, which I'm fine with not having to fuss with so much.

 

I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that a galaxy with advanced technologies as warp gates would still be subject to basic Newtonian physics.

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Hello to all Avorionados! 8)

I want to point out that the new thrusters are a little bit better now but still feel weak!

The "realistic" physics are quite annoying from my point of view.

A big issue is also because of the new physics, AI is now making a lot more mistakes!

 

If we say in a distant future where ships can warp around it will be logical that they would have anti-inertia(/antigrav) systems in place so they dont move that sluggish like a snake.

And thrusters in that time wont be the same as today(like lame rockets)

If you want to play with todays technology you have "Kerbal Space Program" or "Space Engineer", but please dont make this game a pure gravity simulation  :-\

 

 

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