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On Thruster Mechanics


koonschi
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love the new thruster mechanics, they feel better but i do have to say that they feel slightly to powerful, i dont even have to put thrusters on the front of my ship to get a maximum of 2 for the movements. one thing would be nice to see is you having to actually balance the thrusters or your ship could flip. i.e if you have one thruster on the back of your ship but none on the front, it should cause you ship to flip.

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one thing would be nice to see is you having to actually balance the thrusters or your ship could flip. i.e if you have one thruster on the back of your ship but none on the front, it should cause you ship to flip.

 

No. Would create no end of headaches for build design and control and likely kill the game. This isn't KSP where you're literally doing rocket science. Go play that if you want that level of engineering realism. Koonschi has already stated that this game is about playing it, not sitting around for hours trying to build a ship that wont spontaneously combust the first time you turn on the coffee maker.

 

Doesn't work like that anyway. If your thruster's vector is relatively close to, in line with, or intersecting your center of mass, it will only provide thrust along that vector and not flip your s- (IRL). So if you could build a thruster that worked from both ends like the ones we have on here, you could make a boat with only three thrusters (One forwards/back, one side/side, one up/down all pointing at the COM) that functions perfectly well, assuming you then used gyroscopic rotation and stabilization.

 

The only way you could cause an imbalance enough to flip/spin a ship is if you were to have a single thruster out at an extreme edge of a ship with a vector pointing in some arbitrary direction away from the COM without a counterbalancing force. Which, hilariously, I should inform you would be a problem in almost quite literally every ship that could ever be designed by the ship procedural engine and would either necessitate the entire rebuilding of the engine with an infinitely more complex generation algorithm, or removal of the procedural system entirely.

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one thing would be nice to see is you having to actually balance the thrusters or your ship could flip. i.e if you have one thruster on the back of your ship but none on the front, it should cause you ship to flip.

 

No. Would create no end of headaches for build design and control and likely kill the game. This isn't KSP where you're literally doing rocket science. Go play that if you want that level of engineering realism. Koonschi has already stated that this game is about playing it, not sitting around for hours trying to build a ship that wont spontaneously combust the first time you turn on the coffee maker.

 

Agreed completely. There should be some level of assumed computer-assisted-thrust compensation anyway. We just need a single keypress "orient and burn to cancel inertia" hold-able button. While the key is held the ship rotates negative to the ship's motion and burns appropriately to nullify the motion. If at any point the key is let go, the ship re-orients to the camera view as normal. While the key is held, you can free look with the mouse (and aim turrets appropriately).    /soapbox

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another thing people seems to forget about this fliping nonsense, if it's a solution to stop a ship on a thousands km trajectory with a clear path, in Avorion we have 15km to 40 km from the gate to a destination with 1000 asteroids in the way.

Fliping a 500k tons battleship in the middle of an asteroid field at 4 km of a station to dock is just absurd, not fun at all and a guarantee fail.

I'm at 245 hours of gameplay mostly in Hard/insane difficulty, i admit a couple of iron/titanium lost ships due to npc and literally all my ships are lost to asteroid/station docking.

There will always be a moment where you're not cautious enough, or you don't see the asteroid in the sun, or you miscalculate your trajectory and crash your ship.

I'm at the point where i don't realy want to play anymore because i already know what's going to happens. i'm going to have fun until i loose another ship on a station or an asteroid exactly like the other 20 ones.

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I must miss something, because stacked thrusters still produce more thrust than a thruster block of the same size of the stack. I just tested that out yesterday, on the latest beta branch of course.

 

It's not a big amount of difference, but definetly matters on large ships a lot.

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I must miss something, because stacked thrusters still produce more thrust than a thruster block of the same size of the stack. I just tested that out yesterday, on the latest beta branch of course.

 

It's not a big amount of difference, but definetly matters on large ships a lot.

 

They don't produce more thrust overall anymore. Stacked thrusters produce more thrust in a specific direction, but lower thrust in other directions. If you would compare only the braking thrust, then sure, it is benefit, but you are sacrificing something in the way actually. And you can't get as much benefit as you want anymore.

 

Already talked about it in this post: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,1797.msg9087.html#msg9087

 

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I must miss something, because stacked thrusters still produce more thrust than a thruster block of the same size of the stack. I just tested that out yesterday, on the latest beta branch of course.

 

It's not a big amount of difference, but definetly matters on large ships a lot.

 

They don't produce more thrust overall anymore. Stacked thrusters produce more thrust in a specific direction, but lower thrust in other directions. If you would compare only the braking thrust, then sure, it is benefit, but you are sacrificing something in the way actually. And you can't get as much benefit as you want anymore.

 

Already talked about it in this post: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,1797.msg9087.html#msg9087

 

ah, yeah, that makes sense. now I get it. thanks :)

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L2p Kane, we will be laughing furiously at your gameplay meanwhile :-D  maybe try building some new ugly but functional ship, that might be fun jn new version, and educational for lot of players.

 

Well since everyone on our server seems pissed with the sliding around I kind of hope they might be adjusted a bit more so they have great handling but less sliding.

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L2p Kane, we will be laughing furiously at your gameplay meanwhile :-D  maybe try building some new ugly but functional ship, that might be fun jn new version, and educational for lot of players.

 

Well since everyone on our server seems pissed with the sliding around I kind of hope they might be adjusted a bit more so they have great handling but less sliding.

 

To be fair, it is space.. you keep "sliding" essentially until you hit something. Maybe we just need a "zero all inertia(movement)" button, which controls the thrusters to stop movement?

 

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L2p Kane, we will be laughing furiously at your gameplay meanwhile :-D  maybe try building some new ugly but functional ship, that might be fun jn new version, and educational for lot of players.

 

Well since everyone on our server seems pissed with the sliding around I kind of hope they might be adjusted a bit more so they have great handling but less sliding.

 

To be fair, it is space.. you keep "sliding" essentially until you hit something. Maybe we just need a "zero all inertia(movement)" button, which controls the thrusters to stop movement?

 

If you stop pressing any buttons, this is exactly what happens...

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Thought I'd use my first post to weigh in on this, as someone who only just installed the beta patch to try it out.

 

Firstly let me come down firmly in the "Newtonian physics suck the fun out of life" camp. I hated Independence War. I hated turning off flight assist in Elite Dangerous. I like Wing Commander. I like Freespace. Call me a dirty casual, I don't mind!

 

That said, I decided to test out the changes because I don't want the ship I'm currently designing to suck. Enter my little basic Epee-Class. This one had a large main engine and four smaller engines, with a thin panel of normal thruster blocks on both sides and dorsal/ventral. Before the patch it was pretty nippy and easy to turn. After the patch... disaster! The world has ended! Call the United Nations! It turns like a brick. A fast brick. Wait, what? I can go from 0 to max speed in under a second but can't turn worth a damn. Sounds like an old American car... I don't need to accelerate that fast so I removed the four small engines and just left the main one, leaving gaps in the body that I promptly filled with the new directional thruster blocks.

 

Well that helped... kinda. I can turn now, but my roll speed is still like 0.01m/s. That sucks. Where's my safe space! I want a refund! Never mind the U.N. call the galactic overlords! I DEMAND SATISFACTION!

 

Oh.

 

I changed which way the directional thrusters pointed. Normally I put thruster blocks firing in the direction that part of the ship body is facing, so on the port side they fire to the left and visa-versa, and that is how I'd initially put the new directional blocks in. I turned them round, so the dorsal thrusters were firing port/starboard and the starboard/port thrusters were firing dorsal/ventral. Holy cow! Allow me to illustrate...

 

Ey08

 

Before and after stats, although the stats before the actual beta patch aren't included but were I think 2/s for yaw/pitch/roll.

 

And how the thrusters now fire:

 

WWdH

 

Note I also replaced the layers of forward-facing braking thrusters in the nose to one large directional thruster block.

 

To sum up, cancel the phone call to the galactic overlords. I can emerge from my safe space. I need no further satisfaction. I hope my traumatic experience helps others, and I will be setting up a charity to support those of us who have been through such a horrible ordeal. I shall name it Survivors of the New Order With Feelings Lightened And Karma Evened. We shall all be SNOWFLAKEs.

 

(This post is humour, I fully support everything being made optional so people can play how they want within reason and fitting with the Devs vision of their game!)

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I think this thrusters seem to be fine. They are one of the things that will drive the designs for ships to be "Avorion" designs, rather than any ship design being a drivable option

 

My requests are for a "prograde" indicator to go with the retrograde indicator and a button to toggle all thrusters on/off for slide by strafing and twitch free max speed runs/curves.

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I think this thrusters seem to be fine. They are one of the things that will drive the designs for ships to be "Avorion" designs, rather than any ship design being a drivable option

 

My requests are for a "prograde" indicator to go with the retrograde indicator and a button to toggle all thrusters on/off for slide by strafing and twitch free max speed runs/curves.

Agreed on the indicators and also agreed on being able to turn off the braking thrust when you're not providing any input.
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Not a fan of the new system. Would not mind more of an arcade version but besides that not a fan at all. Doubt I will play for much longer with the new system.

All you need is ships built with the new system in mind. If anything, you can make nearly everything more agile using the new directional thrusters...

 

Plus, you can also enable the retrograde marker in the options and actually use your forwards thrust to brake, in case you feel like you can't brake fast enough.

 

Besides the changes to the individual blocks (thus requiring ship redesign), it should feel mostly like it did before.  ???

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Not a fan of the new system. Would not mind more of an arcade version but besides that not a fan at all. Doubt I will play for much longer with the new system.

 

What... Most ships are now faster, more nimble and easier to control, what is there not to like? Just use xml of one of improved ships (dtu in creation forum)

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I tend to do most of my steering through asteroid fields using thrusters now. It just seems to work better that way. But I also play with full collision damage, so I tend to be extra careful around them.

 

But when it came to engagements, on the old system I was constantly overshooting enemy ships and then struggling turn around without shooting off in the wrong direction. Now it's a lot easier to control the distance between yourself and the enemy.

 

But if it's not your thing, then it's not your thing.

 

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