The problem with crew salary

[CitizenCake]

Even with my largest crew its nearly impossible for me to not make amprofit even while doing the most mundane tasks on this game. I think the salary system works amazingn although it could do with some better explaining in game so people know what exactly they are getting into.

 

Getting enough money to make and maintain a "capital ship" shouldnt be easy. It should take wirk and a lot of money. Theres a reason in eve people cant just go and buy a huge cap ship off the bat. Its something that should take time, money, and probably the work of a group of players to get done in the long run.

 

The salary system really sets the only set of goals for players after they've finished the quests and found all the materials. If we didnt have salaries we would get bored and quit

[skullcowboy60]

I like the salary mechanic, and with it goes morale. Without one the other would be of no use. And to me, it's not near as 'grindy' as, with the present economy, trying to gather material to feed Turret Factories. I make plenty of credits to pay the crew just by doing things I would be doing anyway.

 

And it could be worse. At least you don't have to feed them.

[CitizenCake]

I like the salary mechanic, and with it goes morale. Without one the other would be of no use. And to me, it's not near as 'grindy' as, with the present economy, trying to gather material to feed Turret Factories. I make plenty of credits to pay the crew just by doing things I would be doing anyway.

 

And it could be worse. At least you don't have to feed them.

 

Or have to drop them back off at their ho.e station after each "tour" to spend time witht their families.

 

I just assume i employ the women and children as well. Their hands fit better into the little engine parts

[Duncan Idaho]

Getting enough money to make and maintain a "capital ship" shouldnt be easy. It should take wirk and a lot of money. Theres a reason in eve people cant just go and buy a huge cap ship off the bat. Its something that should take time, money, and probably the work of a group of players to get done in the long run.

 

It doesn't cost money to maintain a capital ship in Eve as far as I'm aware. It costs a boat load of money to get, sure, but if you park it somewhere safe and leave if for a week you don't end up with a huge bill. This is the problem that I have with salaries. If you don't crew your ship it decays, if you do it decays your bank balance.

 

 

The salary system really sets the only set of goals for players after they've finished the quests and found all the materials. If we didnt have salaries we would get bored and quit.

 

I completely disagree. You're saying people will happily stick around grinding in order to get money that buys them nothing more than a few hours more with which to grind without backsliding down the achievement slope? Gotta keep pushing that rock uphill because it ain't no fun when it starts rolling back down.

 

For me the quests and materials are a mere side-aspect. I want to have a great big empire with hundreds of ships and factories and a whole region of space to call my own (and of course some unfriendly neighbors to use my fleets on). X3 never really managed that because the universe was pretty static; you often end up with a big fleet but no-one around to use it on unless you declare war against one of the 5 or so races (which means you no longer have access to their ships or weapons). In Avorion with all the factions and the war system there is real potential for this kind of thing.

 

 

[CitizenCake]

 

I completely disagree. You're saying people will happily stick around grinding in order to get money that buys them nothing more than a few hours more with which to grind without backsliding down the achievement slope? Gotta keep pushing that rock uphill because it ain't no fun when it starts rolling back down.

 

 

 

But when does that rock actually start rolling? Have you ever encountered a situation in this game that doesnt lead to you making profit? The ammount of money the crews cost is miniscule compared to any form of money making the game has to offer.

 

If you have the resources to build a huge fleet and equip a huge fleet, money is the least of your worries. Money is litterally SO EASY to get in this game. And if you havent reached a ppint where mone y is no longer an issue, you dont need a huge fleet and probably cant equip one anyways.

 

I see where you are coming from in theory.

 

Personally i would need to leave my whole fleet sitting for 10 hours or more without doing anything to run out of.money. And i know that compared to most others ive seen posting i am VERY far behind the curve as far as progression in the game.. I was worried about what you are talking about when i started but since ive made it farther in the game i realized that all my worries were for nothing.

[DivineEvil]

I just don't see what's wrong with having lots of ships. Why should this be discouraged? With an up-front cost only system there's still a cost involved as you have to build the damned things and replace them if they get destroyed. But you don't get punished for having a nice fleet. As it stands the game drives players to have one-size-fits-all battlewagons, stifling creativity and limiting playstyle.

It is should be discouraged to a degree in order to provide competitive multiplayer environment, where people need to steadily progress and adapt their playstyle in accordance to their desires. With an upfront cost, you either unable to start up in the first place, or the developers/admins are forced to provide you with additional starting resources. Salary system only requires a player to have minimum forward planning. If that's a punishment for you, then you probably better with more casual games or shooters, where in-game progression does not exist.

 

Having a nice fleet is fine, but salary is what drives you to actually do something with it, rather than sit on your ass and keep adding more to it perpetually.

Last I checked this was about acquiring Avorion.  You can't even claim sectors what makes you think this a game about building a space empire?

Stations define who own the sector. Get to any empty sector, build a factory in it, and this sector is yours.

 

It doesn't cost money to maintain a capital ship in Eve as far as I'm aware. It costs a boat load of money to get, sure, but if you park it somewhere safe and leave if for a week you don't end up with a huge bill. This is the problem that I have with salaries. If you don't crew your ship it decays, if you do it decays your bank balance.

Same is true for Avorion. Park your entire fleet in the closest empty sector, fire the crew and leave. It will cost you nothing and wont decay because it is out of persistence. Come back anytime with the new crew, and it is in active duty. Even when Avorion will officially get the persistent economy algorithms, it will not impact the ships, until a player is in a sector. You will have to pay for the ships in active duty, and rightfully so.

I completely disagree. You're saying people will happily stick around grinding in order to get money that buys them nothing more than a few hours more with which to grind without backsliding down the achievement slope? Gotta keep pushing that rock uphill because it ain't no fun when it starts rolling back down.

In Avorion, money buy everything. They're also can be acquired by selling anything. Just like everyone else have already mentioned, it doesn't take much effort to earn hundreds upon hundreds of "hours of freedom", and most importantly, you earn money by simply doing something, so "freedom" you desire is pure nonsense.

 

Each ship and its crew under your command is at least supposed to pay for itself, one way or another. If it cannot do it, or rather you cannot make it do so, then it is useless. The difference between the ship you command directly and another following you is a single Captain (750cr/hour). If that is enough to cripple your "empire building", then your ambitions are simply way beyond your personal ability.

 

I sincerely cannot imagine what kind of gameplay experience you get in Avorion. It feels like you're just a hog, that never has enough. You won't ever sell a turret, a module or resources, that are too weak or below your present tech-level, nor you even touch a commodity, coz trading is too hard for you. You want everything - turrets, modules, resources, money, ships, stations, sectors, - and you do not want to do anything for it. You just want to have everything and look at it for hours, but you still want economy to be there, even though in your situation it is best to play Creative mode. The only alternative I can understand, is that you're just unable to bear with very idea, that you have to pay, even though the number is non-existent.

 

CitizenCake brought up a very good question: At what point does this terrifying moment comes, that you're no longer able to sustain yourself? If you cannot answer this question clearly and outright, then your problem is merely a product of your own mind.

[Yeedo]

Let's look at Endless Sky, the only other space game I've encountered with crew salaries.

 

How it works:

 

-Each ship comes with a minimum crew requirement (not split into different professions like Avorion), which is increased by adding weapons.

 

-Crew members are paid a flat 1000 credits each per in-game day (keep in mind Endless Sky credits != Avorion credits).

 

-You don't have to pay crew salaries while the ship is parked on a planet.

 

-'For the price of more than two years' salary, you can replace one of your crew members with a robotic counterpart. Androids possess sufficient intelligence to perform most work, but each ship still needs a human captain.' (You can buy a 'NDR-114 Android' for 80000 credits to reduce the minimum crew requirement by 1, or at you used to be able to; they were removed due to balancing issues over boarding enemy ships, but that's not relevant here).

 

-Later in the game, you will start to be paid a salary yourself, and you can also conquer planets and demand them to pay tribute each day (usually about 3000 credits per day)

 

-If crew members die in battle (when attempting to capture a disabled ship), you must pay a hefty sum to their families.

 

I think Avorion could use a couple of these:

 

1) Some way of earning passive income, such as the aforementioned tribute system, automated miners (which we already have, but they could use some changes)

 

2) Robotic crew members costing a lot more upfront but not needing to be paid (so they could be useful on ships which you expect to last a while, but are a waste of money if your ship is likely to get blown up (offset in Endless Sky by not having to pay death benefits))

 

1) I feel is crucial, and with the large, procedural galaxy in Avorion it makes 2) less necessary (Endless Sky has a much smaller galaxy with no procedural generation.)