Jump to content
Thundercraft

Ship class? Frigate / Corvette / Battleship?

Recommended Posts

Destroyers are classified below Frigate in the US navy only, as far as I'm aware of. European countries used to classify them between Frigates and Cruisers for as long as terms were used.

 

My current layout is {System#} Class (Volume Min m3):

 

[*]{1} Fighter (522)

[*]{1} Corvette Light (1,306)

[*]{1} Corvette Medium (3,264)

[*]{1} Corvette Heavy (8,160)

[*]{1} Frigate Light (20,400)

[*]{2} Frigate Medium (51,000)

[*]{3} Frigate Heavy (128,000)

[*]{4} Destroyer Light (320,000)

[*]{5} Destroyer Medium (800,000)

[*]{6} Destroyer Heavy (2,000,000)

[*]{7} Cruiser Light (5,000,000)

[*]{8} Cruiser Medium (12,500,000)

[*]{9} Cruiser Heavy (19,764,000)

[*]{10} Battleship Light (31,250,000)

[*]{11} Battleship Medium (43,065,000)

[*]{12} Battleship Heavy (59,348,000)

[*]{13} Dreadnought Light (78,125,000)

[*]{14} Dreadnought Medium (107,554,000)

[*]{15} Dreadnought Heavy (148,371,000)

[*]{15} Titan (207,720,000+)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As that one guy with literally no background or research into this type of thing, here's my two five cents.

 

As has been stated a few times, defining based on mass or even volume when it varies so wildly between materials and module count makes little sense. So why not define it based on role? Well, ship roles in the navy are a bit finicky too, being defined based on ideal performance in the water, not in space. And they overlap eachother sometimes.

 

If I have a ship with all the armed turrets down the center but salvagers on each side to use in combat, is it a battleship or a dreadnought? They're not meant to be weapons, so it's a dreadnought, but they're being used as weapons, so it's a battleship, and so on.

 

What I propose is this: use a mix of the navy terms and the sci-fi/sci-fa terms for the names themselves for the sake of familiarity, and redefine the role of each type to better suit avorion's needs, while still at least making sense.

 

Flying coffin: take a guess. Small, relatively cheap, and therefor disposable (and you want to get into that thing?!) this is reserved for the fighter squadrons of the game, and the player's starting drone.

 

Corvette: usually compact and simple, generally best used against other corvettes or fighters. As a general rule, will most likely die if deployed alone.

 

Frigate: (hopefully) able to take on small groups of corvettes alone or take on large swarms of fighters, but poorly equipped to deal with larger vessels.

 

Gunboat: this is your glass cannon catch all. If it has turrets placed so densely that it vaguely resembles a flaming metal porcupine, this is probably where it belongs. Not particularly capable against anything able to keep up with it and land a few hits.

 

Destroyer: the name says it all. Designed to take on frigates, other destroyers and possibly cruisers and battleships, likely sacrificing some speed and health for the sake of raw firepower.

 

Cruiser: and now we're starting to reach average capital ship territory, I think. Often moderately large, and well equipped to deal with medium groups of smaller ships, as well as smaller cruisers. Likely somewhat vulnerable to swarms of bombers due to blind spots in its firing arcs.

 

Battleship: geared to take on cruisers, other battleships, and capital ships in general, likely sacrificing some mobility for thicker armor and more weapons. Very well equipped to take multiple hits from bombers and corvettes due to sheer mass, but when hitting back, results may vary.

 

Dreadnought: Alright yeah I'm throwing the real life definition out on this one but can you blame me?. In general, It's a ship able to take on several battleships and come out on top, and sometimes surprisingly agile for its (usually colossal) size. Vulnerability to bombers makes smaller vessels nearly a necessity, whether from its own hangars or an escort.

 

Titan: For the ships that have transcended the definition of capital ship into something truly... titanic. I'm so sorry for that. As a general rule for this class, if it can take on multiple dreadnoughts with a reasonably high probability of winning, it's a Titan.

 

Mobile fortress: In general, these Leviathans exist for the express purpose of being a PITA to break. Relies little on support from outside to function, but can eventually be overwhelmed by bombers when alone.

 

Sub-roles:

 

Carrier: if it possesses a substantial hangar volume, it's also a carrier on top of its normal classification. Cruiser carrier, mobile carrier fortress, and so on.

 

Light: usually smaller than average (remember I'm throwing tonnage out the window) and geared to be better at fighting ships smaller than itself.

 

Medium: usually average size, geared to compete with ships around its own size.

 

Heavy: usually bigger than average, and designed to be better at fighting ships larger and likely more dangerous than itself. In the case of mobile fortresses, designed to break other mobile fortresses without reinforcements.

 

Patrol: reasonably fast and likely smaller than average for their class, these vessels of this sub-role exist to defend an area against attack.

 

Thoughts? Feel free to explain why this is all wrong in great detail should the need arise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too like the idea of linking Upgrade Slots to the classifying convention.

I borrowed many ideas from others, including EvilChef.

 

Likewise:  Patrollers, Carriers, Cargo Haulers, etc fall to function and gives no indication as to size.  i am in agreement with those who have outlined this idea before me.

 

Another idea in my class-system is that anything less than 4 upgrade slots is a Scout.

 

My Classification System is thus:

[*]Scout I  (or Skow)

[*]Scout II  (or Shuttle)

[*]Scout III  (or Voyageur)

[*]Fighter

[*]Heavy Fighter

[*]Corvette

[*]Frigate

[*]Destroyer

[*]Cruiser

[*]Heavy Cruiser  (or Assault Cruiser)

[*]Battle Cruiser

[*]Battleship

[*]Dreadnought

[*]Titan

[*]Mobile Fortress

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like most of you I have my own convention. I use a 2 letter prefix with a number based on the number of slots , but I don't take in account the material. I think it would be to hard to keep track.

 

PT Patrol Boat         1

GB Gunboat                 2

SL  Sloop of War         3

CT Corvette                 4

FP Patrol Frigate         5

FF  Frigate                 6

FA Heavy Frigate         7

DE Destroyer Escort 8

DD  Destroyer                 9

CL Light Cruiser         10

CC  Cruiser                 11

CA Heavy Cruiser         12

CB Battlecruiser         13

BB  Battleship                 14

DB Dreadnought         15

 

For non-combat I use CT with the number.

 

I also put CV in from of the 2 letter if it has a hanger. For Example CVBB-14 {Ship Name here} represents a 14 slot battleship that carries fighters. CV can also be put with the CT tag. When cloaking and stealth are introduced I will add a "-S" to the end.

 

I think we all agree that some type of classification needs to used.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The current version of my system.

 

Universal Ship Categorization System (U.S.C.S.)

 

List the material code and system slot code separated by a hyphen/minus sign (-).  Add the ship’s type to the end.  Optionally you can include the ship’s class at the front.

 

Format: class MM-SS type

 

Material code: Ir (Iron), Ti (Titanium), Na (Naonite), Tr (Trinium), Xa (Xanon), Og (Oganite), or Av (Avorion)

System slot code: 1-16, f, or b

Role or Type: Whatever you want.  It can be descriptive or just cool sounding.

 

Ship slot unlocks and preferred ship types:

 

The system accounts for fighter and carriers even though they currently aren't viable.

 

Strike Craft

f - fighter (F), fast anti-strike weapons

b - bomber (B), slow anti-ship weapons

Patrol Ships

1 - light gunship (PGL)

2 - 51k m*3 - gunship (PG)

3 - 128k m*3 - light cutter (PCL)

4 - 320k m*3 - cutter(PC)

Escort Ships

5 - 800k m*3 - light corvette (FSL)

6 - 2,000k m*3 - corvette (FS)

7 - 5,000k m*3 - light frigate (FFL), attack transport (APA)

8 - 12,500k m*3 - frigate (FF), auxiliary carrier (ACV)

9 - 19,764k m*3 - escort destroyer (DDE), escort carrier (CVE)

10 - 31,250k m*3 - destroyer (DD), assault carrier (CVA)

Independent Action Ships

11 - 43,065k m*3 - light cruiser (CL), light carrier (CVL)

12 - 59,348k m*3 - heavy cruiser (CA), cruiser-carrier (CCV)

13 - 78,125k m*3 - battlecruiser (BC), medium carrier (CVV)

Capital Ships

14 - 107,554k m*3 - battleship (BB), battle carrier (BCV)

15 - 148,371k m*3 - dreadnought (BD), fleet carrier (CVF)

Super-Capital Ships

16 - 0.2 billion (200,000k) m*3 - superdreadnought (SBD), supercarrier (SCV)  No new slot unlocked but roughly 35% bigger than a 15 slot ship.  Which is worth noting.

 

Examples: Tr-12 heavy cruiser, Tr-16 mothership, model DD8-Xa-10 destroyer, Vindicator class Av-15 dreadnaught.

 

Note: Only the first example follows the chart above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will let you know the ship scale I personally will be using, which is based on Volume.

 

Corvette: 0 m^3 --- 399.99 k m^3

Frigate: 400 k m^3 --- 2.99 mill m^3

Cruiser: 3 mill m^3 --- 19.99 mill m^3

Battleship/Battlecruiser: 20 mill m^3 --- 199.99 mill m^3

Dreadnought: 200 mill m^3 +

 

and then I have the special roles

 

Fighter: Low personnel craft, less than 200 blocks.

Carrier: 200 k m^3 +, Fighter Attack Role

Space Station: Any Size, but immobile or extremely slow

 

That's what I use anyways, and I have come across for my workshop creations, though, I've only made various types of fighters so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me ship classification is a quick way to summarize a ships size, capability  and function, but can be based on perspective too. Because of this I think honestly ship classification can remain unique to different players/factions/fleets for a couple reasons. Except within the same fleet/faction.

 

I watched a show recently where different factions in the show used different classification for similar sized ships. One factions destroyer was proportional to another's cruiser. Or a good example is farscape: skarren destroyers which were a threat to a peacekeeper carrier.

 

The second is there is a lot of implication of function in the "size" classes that have been mentioned.

 

Cruiser

Battle cruiser

 

Carrier, battle carrier, fleet carrier, super carrier.

 

Carrier has been said to be bigger on some people's scale than battle carrier, however to me, carrier implies a ship that strikes from a distance with little anti ship armaments on it's own, where as battle carrier implies a ship that is more willing to trade blows, as it is more heavily armored and armed, though usually with the trade off of less fighter capacity. From my pov I would be more likely to see a battle carrier operate independently as opposed to a carrier.

 

Then there is fleet carrier and super carrier, they could easily be one and the same, or as the name implies a super carrier is much larger than a regular carrier, but could perform the function of a fleet carrier. Where as fleet carrier implies a logistical role as well as the pure carrier role and is most likely to be the center of a fleet.  (Pure carrier role being the housing of fighter and bombers).

 

This kind of classifying can easily get out of hand to try to get everyone to follow one person's standard. Example is frigate.

 

Patrol frigate

Escort frigate

Line frigate

Missile frigate

Drone frigate

Guided missile frigate

Flack or anti-fighter frigate.

 

All of these could be different sizes, speeds, armaments and defensive capability, but some may approach "typical"  light or small destroyer size. For the faction employing them, and someone trained on that factions different capabilities for each class they will know their capabilities, but honestly may not compare directly to their own.

 

Class as model. Common Practice among some navies is to assign a class based on name of the first ship of a specific hull config. Such as Yamato class battleship, named after...the Yamato. Ohio class SSBN (ballistic missile submarine) named after the first of it's class, the Ohio. While this usually refers to a specific hull design or "model" of ship, I know Star trek has forgone sizing classes for the federation and refers directly to the hull types such as :

 

Galaxy class,

Nebula class,

Nova class

Defiant class

(This excludes Star trek online game which has assigned types such as, escorts, cruisers, raider, etc.)

 

There is also renown. While not much for real world examples, (there are a few but I cannot think of them right now) this enables ships to become a class all of their own. A great example of this is the Millennium Falcon.  Typically a YT-1300 light freighter, if someone's says "Oh Schniz, it's the Falcon!" Your going to treat that ship as a much higher threat, because you know it's modified, faster and more heavily armed than a traditional yt-1300 freighter, and even the crew is as much a credible asset to the vessel as dealing with the ship itself (Though in this case, plot armor), so you know it's captain may pull some crazy stunts (See "Listing Lazily to the left")

 

 

Because of all these different variances, to me the simplest way to do classification is to keep part of it universal to it's upgrade slots:

 

1U

2U

3U - 15U.

 

With this, you could say it's a 3U Omega class super carrier, but other players are going to instantly know its capabilities based on that. A 3U super carrier will likely not be much of a match for a 6U battle freighter.

 

Why not weight? Different blocks weigh different amounts, which means different densities and different volumes. You could have two ships of the same weight but one could have an additional upgrade as it consists of lighter blocks as opposed to heavy armor.

 

Why not just volume? You probably could. But honestly 1-15U is simple. If you want to have the greatest number of people adopt something you want to make it simple and easy.

 

I see a lot of posts on here with people referencing the naval ship codes (BB for battle ship etc) but it is going to be hard to get everyone that's not a die hard navy nerd to follow that.

 

Anyhow, my 1.5 cents worth.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get what your saying.  In reality a fleet carrier is any carrier that operates in a fleet.  So this include light carriers and above and excludes assault carriers and escort carrier.  It's a board category of it's own.  Not really a ship type.  But, I needed names.  Also, a battle carrier is just a carrier with big guns.  Which, in Avorion will pretty much be every carrier since turrets don't interfere with hangars.  I just put battlecarrier at the same size as battleship because they both have battle in the name.  Even though I was stretching I still didn't have enough names since you can make a pretty descent carrier with a 5 slot ship.

 

In the grant tradition of Sci-fi I'd probably give every ship I could a descent hangar and never really class them as carriers.  So, if I had a Dreadnaught it would probably carry some crazy number of fighters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on the fact that due to avorion universe there is no dysfunction from having guns on a carrier, so in turn every carrier is a battle carrier.

 

What I was trying to get at is a separation of class from size.

 

Size classing could be using upgrade count as a reference such as a 5U (U=upgrade) or 10U ship.

 

Then you have a Classification of role. Such as a Carrier, missile frigate, escort frigate, or Battle Freighter.

 

Using the upgrade count moniker at least gives everyone the ability to quickly assess the expected threat level. It would be easy enough to understand and remember to also see a widespread use. Even to the point that most probably could make the leap of what you mean. Example, browsing the workshop and you see:

 

[12U] Ubrikaan class star fury multi role destroyer.

 

If you have played the game for a while, as player you may figure out what that 12U meant. You then at least have an idea roughly of the ships size and capability.

 

Sure this is not as cool, but functional, which is what the military usually goes for first (sometimes...it is government). Such as BB being short for battleship, or SSBN which is a nuclear powered ballistic missile carrying submarine. (Submersible Ship, Ballistic, Nuclear) - Which many confuse as meaning it is a nuclear capable ballistic missile submarine....the ballistic implies nuclear on it's own. ) 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on the fact that due to avorion universe there is no dysfunction from having guns on a carrier, so in turn every carrier is a battle carrier.

 

What I was trying to get at is a separation of class from size.

 

Size classing could be using upgrade count as a reference such as a 5U (U=upgrade) or 10U ship.

 

Then you have a Classification of role. Such as a Carrier, missile frigate, escort frigate, or Battle Freighter.

 

Using the upgrade count moniker at least gives everyone the ability to quickly assess the expected threat level. It would be easy enough to understand and remember to also see a widespread use. Even to the point that most probably could make the leap of what you mean. Example, browsing the workshop and you see:

 

[12U] Ubrikaan class star fury multi role destroyer.

 

If you have played the game for a while, as player you may figure out what that 12U meant. You then at least have an idea roughly of the ships size and capability.

 

Sure this is not as cool, but functional, which is what the military usually goes for first (sometimes...it is government). Such as BB being short for battleship, or SSBN which is a nuclear powered ballistic missile carrying submarine. (Submersible Ship, Ballistic, Nuclear) - Which many confuse as meaning it is a nuclear capable ballistic missile submarine....the ballistic implies nuclear on it's own. )

 

I've been thinking about this.  But, the trouble with trying to apply ship roles has always been the fact that it's easy to change a ship's role on the fly by switching systems and weapons.  This why the U.S.C.S. focuses on material and slot number.  Because, they're the only thing that doesn't change by switching equipment.  The role list I provide was just sort of a list of suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5U or 10U classification ain't that helpful either, since you can get more of those using computed cores.

 

All in all, is it really that important? Would it be easier to just have approx. volume of the ship?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perq, Ironically the same point you made against upgrade classification, also works against volume. Because upgrades are based on volume, but with computer cores a ships offensive and defensive capabilities can be drastically altered. Either 6 extra turrets or 140% more shields. Even hull or system blocks vs heavy armor; drastically different HP count and performance profile in the same "volume".

 

So inversely then volume doesn't give you that much of an idea either.

 

Honestly I think computer cores make such little difference EITHER way, that there is nothing wrong with using upgrade count or volume. I just think something simplified like an upgrade count gives a better idea of rough ship capability at a glance and strictly at a glance.  Add a rough description role and one can get a fast generalized idea. (such as if it has heavy armor, or hangars or is light and fast.)

 

If we want to go beyond that, then details come into play like checking ships specs such as HP, shield count, volume and mass as well as performance in Accel decel, top speed, hangar space etc..

 

However SageThe13th made a good point on material, a 13U Iron ship is going to be no where near as scary as a 9U Avorion ship.

 

Maybe then we could develop something like

 

[10i] (ship class) or [7a] (Ship Class).

 

As has been pointed out, the class of ship is easy to change, however for the purpose of downloads etc and at glance classification this may work.

 

What would be interesting is to come up with universal descriptives for roles:

 

Such as breaking down fast attack, where fast means does not use heavy armor or uses sparingly, and attack means more offensive upgrade focused vs battle carrier where battle means balance of offensive and defensive upgrades and carrier meaning over a percentage of the ship volume/mass being dedicated to hangar space. (Since as has also been pointed out, most ships would likely have "some" hangar space)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading through this topic again I decided my simpler system was better.  Since, the naval classes are used in game and will be used to describe player designed NPC faction ships.  It's just too unhelpful to also try and use them describe my designs as well.

 

Thanks to everyone who's posted.  Your opinions were quite helpful.

 

Still haven't typed up the final version of my system.  But, I'm going describe all fighter designs with an f for the system slots and Ex (Extreme) for what I was calling slot 16.

 

Here's a list of ships I plan on building in the future.

 

Shape Wars (PvP):

1 Darkstar Av-15 War Sphere

2 Conformity Cube Av-15 War Cube

3 Attack Pyramid Av-15 War Prism

4 Star Dozer Av-15 War Wedge

 

The United Nations of Sol (UNS)/United Space Forces (USF):

1 Imperator class Xa-12 Warship

2 Lichtor class Xa-10 Warship

3 Pretorian class Xa-8 Warship

4 SB-17 Centurion Xa-f Bomber

5 SI-18 Legionnaire Xa-f Interceptor

 

Sellswords (Mercenaries):

1 Swordbreaker class Tr-11 Warship

2 Twinblade class Tr-9 Warship

3 SF-4 Trident Tr-f Fighter

 

Blues (Enforcers):

1 Hammerhead class Tr-11 Patrol Ship

2 Manta class Tr-7 Patrol Ship

3 SI-12e Marlin Tr-f Fighter

 

Mongrels (Pirates):

1 Hammerhead class Tr-11 Pirate Ship

2 Swordbreaker class Tr-11 Pirate Ship

3 Twinblade class Tr-9 Pirate Ship

4 Manta class Tr-7 Pirate Ship

5 SF-4p Trident Tr-f Pirate Fighter

6 SI-12p Marlin Tr-f Pirate Fighter

7 Hyena Tr-f Pirate Bomber

8 Jackal Tr-f Pirate Interceptor

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the final version of my system.  I'm curious if anyone can come up with some more ship roles I haven't covered.

 

Universal Ship Categorization System (U.S.C.S.)

Material code: Ir (Iron), Ti (Titanium), Na (Naonite), Tr (Trinium), Xa (Xanon), Og (Oganite), or Av (Avorion)

 

System slot code: 1-15, f, or EX

 

Role or Type: Whatever you want.  It can be descriptive or just cool sounding.

 

List the material code and system slot code separated by a hyphen/minus sign (-).  Add the ship’s role to the end.  Optionally, you can include the ship’s class at the front.

 

The material code is the highest tier material used in a ship's construction.

 

1 thru 15 is the number of slots a ship has, f is for labeling designs intended for fighters, and EX (EXtreme) is used to list ships that are at least 35% bigger than the volume needed to unlock slot 15.  EX ships warrant a more detailed look as there no upward limit and they can be absolutely massive.

 

Format: class MM-SS role

 

Basic Ship Roles:

This isn’t really part of the U.S.C.S. system.  But, this overview of basic ship roles may be helpful to you.

 

Fighters

Interceptor, fast anti-fighter weapons.

Bomber, slow anti-ship weapons.

 

Ships

Warship, designed for combat.  Focus on speed, armor, power, and shields.  There are three main subtypes.

Fast Warship, focus on speed with light armor.  In naval terms frigates, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, and battlecruisers are all this type of warship.

Heavy Warship, focus on armor and shielding.  In naval terms corvettes, destroyers, battleships, and dreadnoughts are all this type of warship.

Carrier, focus on hangar space.  In game you don’t give up much to add a hanger to a design.  So, most carrier designs are battlecarriers or battlestars; carriers with the firepower of a battleship.

 

Transport Ship, the name is pretty self explanatory.  There are four subtypes.

Cargo Ship, focus on cargo space.  Ideal for traders.

Blockade Runner, focus on cargo, speed, armor, and shields.  Designed to get goods through dangerous areas.

Passenger Ship, focus on crew space.  It’s a bit of a niche, but it’s something you can build for.

Troop Ship, focus on crew space, speed, armor, and shields.  These would be ideal for boarding actions when that feature is added.  Until then, these are the safest way to move crew around when trying to staff a larger ship that requires multiple trips to find recruits.

 

Utility Ship, general purpose ships that don’t have a focus.  One subtype.

Mining Ship, Focus on armor and compact simple design.  This type of ship relies as much on exterior design as it does on internal systems.  It’s defenses focus on collision damage.  Since shields don’t stop collision damage there no need for strong shields.  Keeping the design simple, compact, and armored will make it easier to maneuver through asteroid fields and repair damage in case of a crash or scrape.

 

Again, if you can think of any other ship types.  I'd love to hear about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things that has always bothered me slightly in Avorion is when I come across NPC ships that are, for lack of a better description, out of the proper order in terms of ship classification.  It's been many months since I last played the game a lot, and it may have since been corrected, but one example that comes to mind is that Destroyers were classified as being larger and more powerful than Cruisers, and perhaps even Battleships as well, if memory serves.

 

The classification system I use in Avorion is based on a combination of real-world naval and sci-fi definitions, and can be used as a reference for ship classes in conjunction with the 15-slot System Upgrade mechanic in the game.  Regarding the placement of Battleships and Dreadnoughts I've chosen to go the sci-fi route due to the addition of Superdreadnoughts.  I also felt it necessary to include carriers to differentiate some of the larger ships that are primarily focused on providing fighter cover.

 

No. of Upgrade Slots - Class

 

01 - Runabout

02 - Yacht

03 - Cutter

04 - Corvette

05 - Frigate

06 - Destroyer

07 - Light Cruiser

08 - Cruiser

09 - Heavy Cruiser

10 - Battlecruiser / Escort Carrier

11 - Battleship / Light Carrier

12 - Dreadnought / Fleet Carrier

13 - Superdreadnought / Supercarrier

14 - Leviathan

15 - Titan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cuddle Idolatric Initiative uses a kind-of slapdash system for its military ships, primarily based on hull health and combat worth.

  • Flak Corvette – 2 100 HP at Titanium grade
  • Line Corvette – 5 250 HP
  • Light Cruiser – 21 000 HP
  • Heavy Cruiser – 52 500 HP
  • Light Destroyer – 210 000 HP
  • Heavy Destroyer – 525 000 HP
  • Superdestroyer – 2 100 000 HP
  • Titan – 5 250 000 HP

The basis is « 10 000 hull at Titanium grade is the limit between Line Corvette and Light Cruiser » and there’s a multiplier of ten between each two designations. Each material increasing the norma by 40%.

However, every CII ship is tested at the Bedridden Scrolls Arena against its predecessor from the previous grade, and its neighboring ships to assert its "final" designation, explaining how the 1 500 HP Irongrade Achital Mark II could get Line Corvette status despite having Flak Corvette health.

 

CII military ship-builiding efforts will also be limited by the sum of game difficulty and available material, based on "Flak Corvette" for Beginner difficulty and Iron material (so, on my actual Easy galaxy, I’ll limit myself to Iron Line Corvettes, Titanium Light Cruisers, Naonite Heavy Cruisers, and so on till Avorion Titans, then on the next Medium galaxy I’ll make Iron Light Cruisers to Ogonite Titans, etc.).

(The Irongrade Heavy Cruiser "Misao" begin an exception on lesser-than-Hard difficulties because of its essential role.)

 

The "Scout Ship" designation beneath "Flak Corvette" has become severely controversial since the Persecutors and Torpedoes’ apparition. Since guided long-range Torpedoes are ubiquitous Scout Ships cannot scout at all nor oversee battles from afar (which were the main uses of Scout Ships), and Scout Ships may also be killed by Persecutors while shuttling crew through known systems: so people may see next generation Scout Ships as specialized speed-focused Light Cruisers instead of "semi-military" Flak Corvettes.

Another military designation has been recently added, the Persecutor class, which is focused on torpedo-based norma.

  • Iron: 1 torpedo shaft, 20 torpedo storage.
  • Titanium: 2 torpedo shafts, 50 torpedo storage.
  • Naonite: 4 torpedo shafts, 200 torpedo storage.

And so on, shaft number doubling and storage following the x4/x2.5 rule. So it's safe to assume that Persecutor ships will grow from Iron Flak Corvettes, Titanium Line Corvettes, Naonite Light Cruisers and so on~ (though the Iron Persecutor prototype is to be classified as a Line Corvette by health norma, but it was to be expected, as making non-Line Corvette Iron ships is difficult).

 

For civilian ships, the CII has even laxer norma. "Scavenger" ships are little more than manned and slightly bigger starter drone ships made to scavenge wreckage to reduce lag, and eventually mine, though miner scavengers will need an escort to avoid Persecution.

"War Scavenger" ships are more defensive and rigged with small cargo holds to scavenge haulers killed by local enforcing ships.

"Buses", made to carry crew, have as only norma the assumption to be able to carry enough crew to crew a Heavy Station of the same material. Being able to carry enough crew for eleven (not ten, as the eleventh’ worth is made of "hierarchy") would grant the currenly-hypothetical "Heavy Bus" class instead, if stations or ships big enough would be designed.

"Cargo" ships have a fixed norma of "2 000 units cargo hold", with the exception of Irongrade cargo ships which are composed of a smaller "gate-shuttle" cargo and a bigger but expensive "offgrid-jumper" cargo, because of pure millefeuille-based reactors’ price. If stations start to ever store more than 25 000 units of a product, 10 000-unit cargo hold "Heavy Cargo" norma will be instated.

 

For stations, CII normae are based around production and cargo hold.

  • "Ordinary Stations" need to have 220 + 100 times their material code (Titanium equalling 0) production value, and a 6 000 units cargo hold.
  • "Heavy Stations" need to have 520 + 200 times their material code production value, and a 8 000 units cargo hold, and needs to be "appropriately bigger".
  • "Trading Posts" need to have 60 + 50 times their material code production value, and a 60 000 units cargo hold (so, 2 500 for each 24 products, hopefully).
  • "Utility Stations" such as resource depots and other stations that do not produce any goods nor store many goods, need to have 60 + 50 times their material code production value, and a 2 000 units cargo hold, but even that small norma is very lax, allowing designs such as the JoeBar to continue existing.

 

In the future, the hierarchy of Buses would also be extended to contain bus classes which would serve to carry as much people as possible to the limit of being crewable by the previous bus’ maximum crew capacity. Therefore:

  • Heavy Bus – Projected 2 500 crew capacity for 420 crew requirement, but since 1 000 crew capacity buses have been made the crew capacity may be 150% higher, so 6 250.
  • Light Macrotransfer Ship – Projected 50 000 crew capacity for 5 880 crew requirement
  • Heavy Macrotransfer Ship – Projected 600 000 crew capacity for 47 040 crew requirement
  • Light Colony Ship – Projected 12 000 000 crew capacity for 564 480 crew requirement
  • Medium Colony Ship – Projected 600 000 000 crew capacity for 11 289 600 crew requirement
  • Heavy Colony Ship – Projected 45 000 000 000 crew capacity for 282 240 000 crew requirement

As one may imagine, Heavy Macrotransfer Ships would be big enough to classify as Titans, Light Colony Ships would dwarf them by having nine times as much health as the Titanium titan norma, and Heavy Colony Ships would be able to carry several planets' worth of population.

Once the CII is able to field enough Colony Ships and other ships to efficiently move three quarters of the galaxy’s entire sentient population in less than a week, the CII will declare themselves ready for the Galactic Core Event 8).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is certainly an interesting system you use.  Absolutely no offense intended, but while certainly detailed, your system doesn't really follow traditional naval classifications based on ship size.  Without getting into specialized roles, in general, Destroyers are slightly larger than Frigates, and smaller than Light Cruisers.

 

If you'll look at the system I use, it is in the "proper" order, if you will, with the exception that, in reality, Dreadnoughts were merely an older, smaller type of Battleship, used around the time of WWI.  That said, I chose to lean on the fact that in most popular sci-fi universes and games, the term has come to signify a ship larger than a Battleship.

 

I did take some artistic license with the use of the term "Leviathan", but I thought it fit well since it is derived from Jewish mythology and means "giant sea monster" (counterpart to Behemoth, the giant land monster).  I also felt that having another mythological term on the list lent more relevance to the appearance of the term "Titan", because while Titan, from Greek mythology, is often used in games to classify the largest ships, the term does not have much meaning as a ship classification other than its popularity.

 

It's my hope that someday Koonschi can find the time to sort out the classifications for NPC ships, so they follow a more appropriate order.

 

In regards to a ship's material composition, I didn't feel it worth mentioning previously, but since you brought it up and someone may find it useful to have a very simple system, I use the following:

 

A variant designation of "Mk I-VII" signifies general overall progression and is based on the primary material composition of the hull and armor, followed by the ship's primary material composition for internal systems and weapons potential, where the letters "a-g" are used.

 

Iron - I/a

Titanium - II/b

Naonite - III/c

Trinium - IV/d

Xanion - V/e

Ogonite - VI/f

Avorion - VII/g

 

Examples:

 

Runabout IIc = 1-slot, Titanium Hull/Armor, Naonite Internal Systems and Weapons Potential

Cruiser Mk IVe = 8-slot, Trinium Hull/Armor, Xanion Internal Systems and Weapons Potential

Titan Mk VIg = 15-slot, Ogonite Hull/Armor, Avorion Internal Systems and Weapons Potential

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Avorion's in built system it still messed up.  It goes:

Corvette

Frigate

Cruiser

Destroyer

Dreadnought

Battleship

 

Most people would, as has been pointed out many times, put cruisers above destroyers and dreadnoughts above battleships.

 

Dreadnought was never really an official classification in real life.  But rather a pattern of building battleships with a centralized gun line that became the focus of the design.  Dreadnought continued to be used as a slang term along with the rather confusing battlewagon to describe battleships in WWII since by then they were all being built according to the dreadnought pattern.  Superdreadnought was a slang term used to describe even bigger battleships, as ship designs increased in size drastically during the war.

 

Battlecruisers are an interesting case as well.  Most people don't realize that they were actually bigger than battleships in term of length a lot of time.  However, lighter armor placed them below battleships because Navies go by displacement.  You could pull this of in Avorion as well.  Having a battlecruiser at the same slot size as a battleship but giving the battlecruiser trinium armor and the battleship organite.

 

I don't use the term Titan for ships in my fictional worlds it's always used as a term for the largest type of mech.  But, to each there own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would keep Battlecruiser and Battleship separated and in that order just to differentiate them in Avorion without having to come up with more unrealistic terms for the other classes.

 

With 15 classifications to define, it can get downright silly coming up with terms to fill out the list, especially considering that after a certain point in Avorion the ship volumes start to scale exponentially and there just aren't that many traditional naval terms to differentiate ship classes based on displacement/size.  I'm trying to keep my classifications as realistic as possible, while working within the parameters of the game.

 

In traditional navies, deviation from one nation--in this case, player--to the next was not uncommon, with some Frigates exceeded the length or displacement of another nation's Destroyers, and so on, so worrying that one player's ship is different in terms of length, size, statistics, etc. doesn't matter much to me as long as it has the same number of System Upgrade slots.  Those System Upgrades define the relevant hard statistics and weapon capabilities within a set range, anyway.

 

Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the purely fictional Leviathan and Titan terms, either, but without adding in even more Cruisers to the middle--which already vary a good deal in my classification system--you'd have to come up with some terms on the little end or the big end and there's just not much room for change on the little end, so that leaves the big end, where traditional naval terms are completely lacking...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously, it's easy to run out of names with 15 slots to fill.  Though, if you look what volumes slots unlock you can see slots unlock with increasingly smaller volume increase percentages as ships get bigger.

 

System Slot Code

f – <= 200 blocks, intended as a fighter design

1 – < 51 k m3

2 – 51 k m3

3 – 128 k m3, 151 % increase

4 – 320 k m3, 150 % increase

5 – 800 k m3, 150 % increase

6 – 2,000 k m3, 150 % increase

7 – 5,000 k m3, 150 % increase

8 – 12,500 k m3, 150 % increase

9 – 19,764 k m3, 58 % increase

10 – 31,250 k m3, 58 % increase

11 – 43,065 k m3, 38 % increase

12 – 59,348 k m3, 38 % increase

13 – 78,125 k m3, 32 % increase

14 – 107,554 k m3, 38 % increase

15 – 148,371 k m3, 38 % increase

Ex – >= 200,000 k m3, 135 % increase

 

This led me to the idea of combining two slots for larger ship roles.  So, I get this system.

 

Strike Craft

Interceptor, armed with anti-fighter and anti-torpedo weapons.  Anti-fighter guns, point defense chainguns, or point defense lasers.

Fighter, armed with general purpose weapons.  Chainguns, bolters, plasma, lasers, pulse cannons, or tesla guns.

Bomber, armed with anti-ship weapons.  Cannons, railguns, launchers, or lightning guns. 

 

Patrol Ships

1, Gunship

2, Cutter

 

Escort Ships

3, Corvette

4, Frigate

5, Destroyer

 

Pseudo Capital Ships

6, Light Cruiser/Escort Carrier

7, Heavy Cruiser/Assault Carrier

 

Legitimate Capital Ships

8-9, Battlecruiser/Light Carrier

10-11, Battleship/Medium Carrier

12-13, Dreadnaught/Heavy Carrier

 

Super Capital Ships

14-15, Superdreadnaught/Supercarrier

Ex, Command Ship/Mothership

 

I still think this approach is less helpful and less versatile than the U.S.C. System I posted earlier.  But, it has certain uses for a Stempunk faction I'm thinking of, since they would use naval terms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest oddball in naval classification is the frigate. In sailing ship days, the frigate was a medium-sized warship used for "cruiser warfare" (scouting, long-range patrol, anti-piracy, raiding). There were even exceptionally-powerful frigates (e.g. USS Constitution) that were considered equal to a small ship of the line (battleship). When steamships came along, the "frigate" concept was renamed into the "cruiser" we all know and love. Then came WW2, where there was a need for a small, slow, cheap anti-submarine convoy escort. These ships became the modern frigate, much smaller (usually) than a destroyer.

 

Since sci-fiction draws inspiration from different eras of naval combat (broadside-firing capital ships, starfighter carriers, missile boats, ramships, and boarding vessels all coexist), the frigate can appear as both a small escort vessel or a large independent warship, depending on setting.

 

Then we have destroyers. These were once small and cheap escorts, designed to fend off enemy torpedo attacks and (eventually) launch torpedo attacks of their own. But they became so useful as general-purpose warships that after WW2 they essentially replaced the cruiser as the independent, long-range warship. Modern destroyers are at least the size of WW2 light cruisers, and the bigger ones like the USS Zumwalt are almost the size of the largest WW2 heavy cruisers.

 

In sci-fiction, the issue is further muddled by the "Star Destroyer" of Star Wars, which clearly fulfills a battleship/carrier role and is bigger than the various corvettes, frigates, and even cruisers in the setting. This has led to games like the X-series having "destroyers" as slow, tough, gun-armed warships. I suspect Avorion is the same, since it makes destroyers much bigger than cruisers.

 

 

In reality, Dreadnoughts were merely an older, smaller type of Battleship, used around the time of WWI.  That said, I chose to lean on the fact that in most popular sci-fi universes and games, the term has come to signify a ship larger than a Battleship.

 

It's the other way around. The HMS Dreadnought was considered so much more powerful that all designs before it became known as "pre-dreadnought" battleships and everything after as "dreadnought" (and later "super-dreadnought") battleships. After WW1, terms like "fast battleship" (HMS Queen Elizabeth) and ultimately "super battleship" (Japanese Battleship Yamato) came about as even more powerful designs were built, but they are all considered "dreadnoughts" as well (super-super-dreadnoughts, I guess).

 

In sci-fiction, the term is used in its original sense to denote a particularly powerful (and revolutionary) battleship class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main naval classifications in Avorion stem from the most popular sci-fi games at the time:

  • The X-Series, which have M2 "destroyers" and M1 "carriers", which have the roles of "destroying everything" and "carrying a lot of ships"
  • The FreeSpace series, which effectively inverts cruisers and destroyers by making the destroyers the bigger ships.
  • Elite: Dangerous, which more or less handwaves "capital ship class" and "battlecruiser" for anything bigger than a regular (player-driven) ship that flies and jumps.

Apparently (difficult to see grey on white background :'(!), Wing Commander didn't invert and got designations more-or-less right :) ! But that detail probably vanished from some people's memories as the last game in the series was in 1998 (excluding Saga), while FreeSpace covered years 1998 and 1999 and got an editor that allowed people to make mods, especially when its source code was launched.

 

The cruiser-destroyer inversion is probably due to role discrepancy, destroyers being an abbreviation of Torpedo Boat Destroyers, escort ships that would escort bigger ships to detect and destroy incoming torpedoes and the boats that fired 'em, usually submarines.

But in most sci-fi game franchises (excluding Wing Commander), destroyers happen to be capital ships that are supposed to be specialized in destroying things ::), which then logically means having the most weaponry, therefore "being the baddest mother****er around" 8), so generally being bigger than a "mere" cruiser that it is now supposed to destroy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Star Trek also uses more proper roles, some of the original creators were in the military after all, but it's not focused on war so most people probably don't know.  Federation ships are roles are as follows.

 

Scout

Destroyer

Light Cruiser

Heavy Cruiser

Dreadnought

 

Interestingly, Federation Heavy Cruisers are a match for Klingon Battlecruisers in TOS and by TNG era are actually superior.

 

Star Wars and other popular games are probably the reason some people think destroyers are bigger than cruisers.  However, it's odd that in Avorion the battleship is the biggest ship type above dreadnought.  Since, most Sci-Fi use dreadnoughts as the biggest type of battleship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...