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SageThe13th

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Posts posted by SageThe13th


  1. But at the moment, wonder: if ships needed a host of materials, making them would be inordinately challenging or get cumbersome, and the starting probe-ship would need a big enough cargo hold, or would need to be upgraded to a full-blown "starter ship".

    Or there would be "ship class requirements": the player's ship volume would be limited until certain things are added to the ship. (It'd get weird as, for big ship blueprints, there would be "ship eggs", floating cargo holds to hold the upgrade materials before "upgrading" ship class and evolving into the desired ship.)

     

    My thinking is more of the reverse of this.  If the devs think making a ship should be easy because otherwise it would make the game too hard to get into.  Then why is trading and turret production so obtuse and completely different from how ships are made.  Even though those elements don't really seem to fit with the logic the rest of the game works on?  That, and you can't even make ship systems.  You can only upgrade them at a research lab.  Which can also do with turrets.  Also, this it doesn't cost anything.  The labs just freely combine items together and reroll the stats.

     

    That means there are three totally different ways of making ship parts, if you include the ship itself as just a part.  Three methods of creation that have no logical connection to each other.


  2. Certainly one of the oddest things about Avorion is that I can create a whole ship including a hyperdrive from raw iron mined straight from an asteroid.  Yet making any sort of gun requires all sorts of different items that need to be made in a factory.  Factories which pipeline doesn't include any of the materials I make ships out of.  It's like the whole inventory and trading system exists in some parallel universe with no logical connection to the rest of the game.


  3. Star Trek also uses more proper roles, some of the original creators were in the military after all, but it's not focused on war so most people probably don't know.  Federation ships are roles are as follows.

     

    Scout

    Destroyer

    Light Cruiser

    Heavy Cruiser

    Dreadnought

     

    Interestingly, Federation Heavy Cruisers are a match for Klingon Battlecruisers in TOS and by TNG era are actually superior.

     

    Star Wars and other popular games are probably the reason some people think destroyers are bigger than cruisers.  However, it's odd that in Avorion the battleship is the biggest ship type above dreadnought.  Since, most Sci-Fi use dreadnoughts as the biggest type of battleship.


  4. Obviously, it's easy to run out of names with 15 slots to fill.  Though, if you look what volumes slots unlock you can see slots unlock with increasingly smaller volume increase percentages as ships get bigger.

     

    System Slot Code

    f – <= 200 blocks, intended as a fighter design

    1 – < 51 k m3

    2 – 51 k m3

    3 – 128 k m3, 151 % increase

    4 – 320 k m3, 150 % increase

    5 – 800 k m3, 150 % increase

    6 – 2,000 k m3, 150 % increase

    7 – 5,000 k m3, 150 % increase

    8 – 12,500 k m3, 150 % increase

    9 – 19,764 k m3, 58 % increase

    10 – 31,250 k m3, 58 % increase

    11 – 43,065 k m3, 38 % increase

    12 – 59,348 k m3, 38 % increase

    13 – 78,125 k m3, 32 % increase

    14 – 107,554 k m3, 38 % increase

    15 – 148,371 k m3, 38 % increase

    Ex – >= 200,000 k m3, 135 % increase

     

    This led me to the idea of combining two slots for larger ship roles.  So, I get this system.

     

    Strike Craft

    Interceptor, armed with anti-fighter and anti-torpedo weapons.  Anti-fighter guns, point defense chainguns, or point defense lasers.

    Fighter, armed with general purpose weapons.  Chainguns, bolters, plasma, lasers, pulse cannons, or tesla guns.

    Bomber, armed with anti-ship weapons.  Cannons, railguns, launchers, or lightning guns. 

     

    Patrol Ships

    1, Gunship

    2, Cutter

     

    Escort Ships

    3, Corvette

    4, Frigate

    5, Destroyer

     

    Pseudo Capital Ships

    6, Light Cruiser/Escort Carrier

    7, Heavy Cruiser/Assault Carrier

     

    Legitimate Capital Ships

    8-9, Battlecruiser/Light Carrier

    10-11, Battleship/Medium Carrier

    12-13, Dreadnaught/Heavy Carrier

     

    Super Capital Ships

    14-15, Superdreadnaught/Supercarrier

    Ex, Command Ship/Mothership

     

    I still think this approach is less helpful and less versatile than the U.S.C. System I posted earlier.  But, it has certain uses for a Stempunk faction I'm thinking of, since they would use naval terms.


  5. Avorion's in built system it still messed up.  It goes:

    Corvette

    Frigate

    Cruiser

    Destroyer

    Dreadnought

    Battleship

     

    Most people would, as has been pointed out many times, put cruisers above destroyers and dreadnoughts above battleships.

     

    Dreadnought was never really an official classification in real life.  But rather a pattern of building battleships with a centralized gun line that became the focus of the design.  Dreadnought continued to be used as a slang term along with the rather confusing battlewagon to describe battleships in WWII since by then they were all being built according to the dreadnought pattern.  Superdreadnought was a slang term used to describe even bigger battleships, as ship designs increased in size drastically during the war.

     

    Battlecruisers are an interesting case as well.  Most people don't realize that they were actually bigger than battleships in term of length a lot of time.  However, lighter armor placed them below battleships because Navies go by displacement.  You could pull this of in Avorion as well.  Having a battlecruiser at the same slot size as a battleship but giving the battlecruiser trinium armor and the battleship organite.

     

    I don't use the term Titan for ships in my fictional worlds it's always used as a term for the largest type of mech.  But, to each there own.


  6. Here's the final version of my system.  I'm curious if anyone can come up with some more ship roles I haven't covered.

     

    Universal Ship Categorization System (U.S.C.S.)

    Material code: Ir (Iron), Ti (Titanium), Na (Naonite), Tr (Trinium), Xa (Xanon), Og (Oganite), or Av (Avorion)

     

    System slot code: 1-15, f, or EX

     

    Role or Type: Whatever you want.  It can be descriptive or just cool sounding.

     

    List the material code and system slot code separated by a hyphen/minus sign (-).  Add the ship’s role to the end.  Optionally, you can include the ship’s class at the front.

     

    The material code is the highest tier material used in a ship's construction.

     

    1 thru 15 is the number of slots a ship has, f is for labeling designs intended for fighters, and EX (EXtreme) is used to list ships that are at least 35% bigger than the volume needed to unlock slot 15.  EX ships warrant a more detailed look as there no upward limit and they can be absolutely massive.

     

    Format: class MM-SS role

     

    Basic Ship Roles:

    This isn’t really part of the U.S.C.S. system.  But, this overview of basic ship roles may be helpful to you.

     

    Fighters

    Interceptor, fast anti-fighter weapons.

    Bomber, slow anti-ship weapons.

     

    Ships

    Warship, designed for combat.  Focus on speed, armor, power, and shields.  There are three main subtypes.

    Fast Warship, focus on speed with light armor.  In naval terms frigates, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, and battlecruisers are all this type of warship.

    Heavy Warship, focus on armor and shielding.  In naval terms corvettes, destroyers, battleships, and dreadnoughts are all this type of warship.

    Carrier, focus on hangar space.  In game you don’t give up much to add a hanger to a design.  So, most carrier designs are battlecarriers or battlestars; carriers with the firepower of a battleship.

     

    Transport Ship, the name is pretty self explanatory.  There are four subtypes.

    Cargo Ship, focus on cargo space.  Ideal for traders.

    Blockade Runner, focus on cargo, speed, armor, and shields.  Designed to get goods through dangerous areas.

    Passenger Ship, focus on crew space.  It’s a bit of a niche, but it’s something you can build for.

    Troop Ship, focus on crew space, speed, armor, and shields.  These would be ideal for boarding actions when that feature is added.  Until then, these are the safest way to move crew around when trying to staff a larger ship that requires multiple trips to find recruits.

     

    Utility Ship, general purpose ships that don’t have a focus.  One subtype.

    Mining Ship, Focus on armor and compact simple design.  This type of ship relies as much on exterior design as it does on internal systems.  It’s defenses focus on collision damage.  Since shields don’t stop collision damage there no need for strong shields.  Keeping the design simple, compact, and armored will make it easier to maneuver through asteroid fields and repair damage in case of a crash or scrape.

     

    Again, if you can think of any other ship types.  I'd love to hear about them.


  7. Reading through this topic again I decided my simpler system was better.  Since, the naval classes are used in game and will be used to describe player designed NPC faction ships.  It's just too unhelpful to also try and use them describe my designs as well.

     

    Thanks to everyone who's posted.  Your opinions were quite helpful.

     

    Still haven't typed up the final version of my system.  But, I'm going describe all fighter designs with an f for the system slots and Ex (Extreme) for what I was calling slot 16.

     

    Here's a list of ships I plan on building in the future.

     

    Shape Wars (PvP):

    1 Darkstar Av-15 War Sphere

    2 Conformity Cube Av-15 War Cube

    3 Attack Pyramid Av-15 War Prism

    4 Star Dozer Av-15 War Wedge

     

    The United Nations of Sol (UNS)/United Space Forces (USF):

    1 Imperator class Xa-12 Warship

    2 Lichtor class Xa-10 Warship

    3 Pretorian class Xa-8 Warship

    4 SB-17 Centurion Xa-f Bomber

    5 SI-18 Legionnaire Xa-f Interceptor

     

    Sellswords (Mercenaries):

    1 Swordbreaker class Tr-11 Warship

    2 Twinblade class Tr-9 Warship

    3 SF-4 Trident Tr-f Fighter

     

    Blues (Enforcers):

    1 Hammerhead class Tr-11 Patrol Ship

    2 Manta class Tr-7 Patrol Ship

    3 SI-12e Marlin Tr-f Fighter

     

    Mongrels (Pirates):

    1 Hammerhead class Tr-11 Pirate Ship

    2 Swordbreaker class Tr-11 Pirate Ship

    3 Twinblade class Tr-9 Pirate Ship

    4 Manta class Tr-7 Pirate Ship

    5 SF-4p Trident Tr-f Pirate Fighter

    6 SI-12p Marlin Tr-f Pirate Fighter

    7 Hyena Tr-f Pirate Bomber

    8 Jackal Tr-f Pirate Interceptor

     


  8. Agreed on the fact that due to avorion universe there is no dysfunction from having guns on a carrier, so in turn every carrier is a battle carrier.

     

    What I was trying to get at is a separation of class from size.

     

    Size classing could be using upgrade count as a reference such as a 5U (U=upgrade) or 10U ship.

     

    Then you have a Classification of role. Such as a Carrier, missile frigate, escort frigate, or Battle Freighter.

     

    Using the upgrade count moniker at least gives everyone the ability to quickly assess the expected threat level. It would be easy enough to understand and remember to also see a widespread use. Even to the point that most probably could make the leap of what you mean. Example, browsing the workshop and you see:

     

    [12U] Ubrikaan class star fury multi role destroyer.

     

    If you have played the game for a while, as player you may figure out what that 12U meant. You then at least have an idea roughly of the ships size and capability.

     

    Sure this is not as cool, but functional, which is what the military usually goes for first (sometimes...it is government). Such as BB being short for battleship, or SSBN which is a nuclear powered ballistic missile carrying submarine. (Submersible Ship, Ballistic, Nuclear) - Which many confuse as meaning it is a nuclear capable ballistic missile submarine....the ballistic implies nuclear on it's own. )

     

    I've been thinking about this.  But, the trouble with trying to apply ship roles has always been the fact that it's easy to change a ship's role on the fly by switching systems and weapons.  This why the U.S.C.S. focuses on material and slot number.  Because, they're the only thing that doesn't change by switching equipment.  The role list I provide was just sort of a list of suggestions.


  9. I get what your saying.  In reality a fleet carrier is any carrier that operates in a fleet.  So this include light carriers and above and excludes assault carriers and escort carrier.  It's a board category of it's own.  Not really a ship type.  But, I needed names.  Also, a battle carrier is just a carrier with big guns.  Which, in Avorion will pretty much be every carrier since turrets don't interfere with hangars.  I just put battlecarrier at the same size as battleship because they both have battle in the name.  Even though I was stretching I still didn't have enough names since you can make a pretty descent carrier with a 5 slot ship.

     

    In the grant tradition of Sci-fi I'd probably give every ship I could a descent hangar and never really class them as carriers.  So, if I had a Dreadnaught it would probably carry some crazy number of fighters.


  10. The current version of my system.

     

    Universal Ship Categorization System (U.S.C.S.)

     

    List the material code and system slot code separated by a hyphen/minus sign (-).  Add the ship’s type to the end.  Optionally you can include the ship’s class at the front.

     

    Format: class MM-SS type

     

    Material code: Ir (Iron), Ti (Titanium), Na (Naonite), Tr (Trinium), Xa (Xanon), Og (Oganite), or Av (Avorion)

    System slot code: 1-16, f, or b

    Role or Type: Whatever you want.  It can be descriptive or just cool sounding.

     

    Ship slot unlocks and preferred ship types:

     

    The system accounts for fighter and carriers even though they currently aren't viable.

     

    Strike Craft

    f - fighter (F), fast anti-strike weapons

    b - bomber (B), slow anti-ship weapons

    Patrol Ships

    1 - light gunship (PGL)

    2 - 51k m*3 - gunship (PG)

    3 - 128k m*3 - light cutter (PCL)

    4 - 320k m*3 - cutter(PC)

    Escort Ships

    5 - 800k m*3 - light corvette (FSL)

    6 - 2,000k m*3 - corvette (FS)

    7 - 5,000k m*3 - light frigate (FFL), attack transport (APA)

    8 - 12,500k m*3 - frigate (FF), auxiliary carrier (ACV)

    9 - 19,764k m*3 - escort destroyer (DDE), escort carrier (CVE)

    10 - 31,250k m*3 - destroyer (DD), assault carrier (CVA)

    Independent Action Ships

    11 - 43,065k m*3 - light cruiser (CL), light carrier (CVL)

    12 - 59,348k m*3 - heavy cruiser (CA), cruiser-carrier (CCV)

    13 - 78,125k m*3 - battlecruiser (BC), medium carrier (CVV)

    Capital Ships

    14 - 107,554k m*3 - battleship (BB), battle carrier (BCV)

    15 - 148,371k m*3 - dreadnought (BD), fleet carrier (CVF)

    Super-Capital Ships

    16 - 0.2 billion (200,000k) m*3 - superdreadnought (SBD), supercarrier (SCV)  No new slot unlocked but roughly 35% bigger than a 15 slot ship.  Which is worth noting.

     

    Examples: Tr-12 heavy cruiser, Tr-16 mothership, model DD8-Xa-10 destroyer, Vindicator class Av-15 dreadnaught.

     

    Note: Only the first example follows the chart above.


  11. Scott Manly actually covered the game already.  That's how I heard about Avorion.

     

    I'm not really playing the game right now because I've made the mistake of playing early access games to much and getting used to a particular build only to be frustrated when things got changed later.  This has already happened with the changes to IF generators earlier in the year.  I'll pop in if there's and update to see what's different.  But, I'm not planning on playing the game seriously until it's full release.  I think that's one thing.  We're waiting for the next big update so there's no new content right now to keep things interesting.


  12. I too want as much control over the look of the my weapons as possible.  I actually prefer not having control over my weapon's stats.  Because as someone who played From the Depths I found that when I built my weapons I ended up building the same weapon over and over again.  With a loot based weapons the game can surprise me and I'll try things I wouldn't normally go for based on the stats of the weapons I'm given.


  13. The fundamental issue is that you'd never be able to carry enough ore to build a bigger ship. And it would be ridiculous to have to mine a little but, add something to the partially completed new ship, mine a little more, add a little more, etc. All while fending off pirates and Xsotan.

     

    And even if this doesn't bother you, most players will find it frustrating.

     

    The obvious way around this would be a fleet train with cargo ships. But the game doesn't really support this yet with the wholly inadequate cargo transfer UI.

     

    And I'd have a further issue with it in that the AI controlled ships don't understand the concept of who should flee (your cargo ships), escorting the fleeing ships, etc. And there is currently no way to send cargo ships to a station to drop off minerals, for example.

     

    While it is a bit "meta" and unrealistic, the game needs significant progressions before this should be attempted.

     

    I agree with this.  I like the idea.  But the player needs to be able to build and control infrastructure such as mining stations, supply fleets, and construct fleets more easily.  This would help with players collecting resources to quickly cause you need somewhere safe to keep it all.  And massive building projects would require you to be able mobilize various assets to run the project smoothly.  We just need to be able to do all that first.

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