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Everything posted by Gameswalker

  1. Suggestion on turret Factories It seems that the design intent is to have bigger turrets do more damage. The update 2.2 achieved this by reducing the damage a small slot weapon does. This caused a massive changes to DPS/Slot which is the true measurement of a weapon's effectiveness. A side effect of this is slow slot weapons became infective at tech 50. To achieve both goals of making high slot weapons better than low slot weapons but keeping low slot weapons viable I would do the following Define Weapon DPS/Slot as the following: This is the amount of damage the weapon does per slot over a fixed amount of time (As an example 2 minutes). Formula for Weapon DPS = DPS/Slot * (fire time before overheating / Battery charge) / (firetime + min(120, cooldown/battery recharge time)) Example A: Laser that does 5000 damage per second per slot and has a battery life of 30 seconds and a recharge time of 60 seconds shows a Weapon DPS/Slot of 1666 (5000 damage x 30 seconds / 90 seconds (30 + 60)) Example B: Laser that does 5000 DPS per slot with a battery charge of 100 seconds and 120 seconds recharge. Weapon DPS/Slot is 4166. (5000 * 100 / 120) Burst DPS/Slot is simply what damage the weapon does per slot So both A and B are 5000 Burst DPS/Slot Base cost of the weapon (per slot) should be based around Weapon DPS/Slot. A factory weapon a a given tech has a maximum Weapon DPS/Slot chosen by the designers. The base cost of the weapon is Weapon DPS/Slot * Y (y is some value in data) * slots. Large weapons get a bonus to Weapon DPS/Slot (for example 2% a slot over minimum size). This makes large weapons have a higher maximum damage for the same cost as low slot weapons. Extra cost multipliers based weapon range, damage type etc and possibly burst DPS Example Tech 50 Turret data (ignore add on multipliers in this example) Maximum Weapon DPS/Slot 4000. Cost per WDPS (Weapon DPS Slot) 4000 Highest cost roll possible at tech 50 is 16 million (per slot) Turret A (high roll, one slot): WDPS 4000. DPS/Slot of 4000 with a battery of 120/120 - total cost 16 million. Final WDPS 4000 Turret B (high roll, one slot) : WDPS 4000 with DPS/Slot 8000 of with a battery of 30/30 - total cost 16 million. Final WDPS 4000 Turret C (high roll, five slots): WDPS 4000 with DPS/Slot 8000 of with a battery of 30/30 - total cost 80 million. Final WDPS 4800 (4000 * 1.2) Turret D (middle roll, five slots): WDPS 2000 with DPS/Slot 4000 of with a battery of 30/30 - total cost 40 million. Final WDPS 2400 (2000 * 1.2) Hopefully this is useful for you.
  2. Analysis of Weapons at Tech 50 turret factories (All damage is in DPS/Slot as that is the true value of a turret) Tesla - 5k top damage with coax limits this weapon system to fighters only. Part of the reason for the low damage is that these turrets now max cost at around 14 million in Update 2.2 compared to 50 million in Update 2.0. Launcher - With the maximum value of these weapons being 118 million (so far) in Update 2.2 they have a top end damage of around 3.5k with coax. This is the go to long range weapon for Update 2.2. Railgun - Update 2.2 no has a maximum of around 2.5k (Coax) damage at 30 million. Down from 118 million and 11k damage (not coax) in Update 2.0. No longer a viable weapon at tech 50. Pulse Cannon - No good turrets rolled up with maximum damage at 1.2k I would skip this weapon. Note that in Update 2.0 it was outclassed by other weapons as well. Lighting Cannon - No turrets of over 25 million limiting damage to 2.5k (Coax) in update 2.2 with 20 second battery life. No longer a viable weapon. Note in Update 2.2 it could go over 60 million and put out 25k damage for 180 seconds (not coax). Laser - Maximum damage of 4.5k (Coax) with 40 seconds of battery limits this to a fighter only weapon in Update 2.2. In Update 2.0 the best laser turrets were 12.5k with battery life of 500 seconds (not coax) costing 60 million. Chaingun - Not enough data here. Not viable in Update 2.0 due to low damage and range. Nothing I've seen in update 2.2 to change this opinion. Cannon - Due to maximum weapon value of 30 million in Update 2.0 this wasn't viable then. No change and less damage/slot in Update 2.2. Skip this weapon at tech 50. Bolter - In Update 2.2 coming in at 1.9k DPS/Slot. Down from 5.9k DPS/Slot in Update 2.0. This is your only decent non-coax turret in all the weapons in Update 2.2 at tech 50. Sad that a low tech weapon is now the best non-coax weapon in Update 2.2.
  3. The issue is that loot drops are have always been bad. Actually after going over the numbers in more detail the reduction in firepower is even worse for most turrets. The best laser I ever found was 12.5k with over 300 seconds of battery charge. In 2.2 with a 4.5k laser with a 40 second battery life (which means it will have to recharge which results in a drop of DPS by at least half) it means that lasers have been reduced to 18% of previous damage against the best update 2.0 one. Average games in 2.0 produced a 7.5k laser so using that value 2.2 is 30% (when you factor in charge time). All good lasers in update 2.0 had battery life of 300 to 600 seconds. The best I saw in update 2.2 was 44 seconds. Lightning, Tesla and Railguns don't seem to roll the high value weapons any longer. Best update 2.0 lighting is 19k I found in a game (with being 12k and up normal). The best 2.2 I could roll was 3.5k so those are down to 29% (based on the average 12k versions). Also battery charge times for those have not exceeded 25 seconds. The best update 2.0 ones where around 180 seconds. Tesla weapons got destroyed. The best I found every was 48k plasma. The best 2.2 I rolled was 5k so 10% of 2.0. Assuming average Teslas we about 22k in 2.0 so assuming I rolled average puts the 5k at 23%. Railguns don't roll as high of values (cost wise) as 2.0 ones did. An average game in 2.0 would produce a 9k railgun. The best 2.2 I rolled was 2.3k so 25%. Note that all of the high roll 2.2 weapons are coax which limits their use where as none of 2.0 ones were coax. Strangely Launchers ended up about the same in 2.2, mostly due to really high value ones I rolled consistently in 2.2. These got up to 4.5k in 2.2 (coax 118 million in cost). So Launchers are now the top weapon in update 2.2. The issue I have with DPS resuduction on this scale is time to fight the bloated hit point enemies. A update 2.0 15 slot ship averages 333k DPS which takes 50 seconds to destroy a Hard core pirate (10 million hull) (near 0.0). Taking two and a half minutes to destroy one pirate in 2.2 will not be fun (assume 33% of 2.0 ship DPS). Why the increase of DPS is important is by using player ships as an example they go from shields around 3 million (10 slot ship) at tech 36 to 60 million (15 slot fully ship maxed out) in Avorion space. Assuming the enemies are also 20x tougher (experiences says many are) near 0.0, to keep up with the enemy hit points you need x20 increase in DPS/Slot (x13 considering extra weapon slots on a 15 slot ship). With the current turret update 2.2 data the DPS/Slot falls way short. Lasers for example go from 700 DPS/Slot at Tech 36 to 4500 (2250 after battery time is considered) for a small increase of 3x. Not enough to make up for the enemy hit / shield increases.
  4. I took a recent game to test out turret factory changes. These changes are massive. Turret factories received a massive DPS/Slot downgrade. These are changes based on a sample size of ~50 turret factories These are the Tech 50 turret notes. Telsa and Lightning cannon best DPS/Slot reduced to 20% of patch 2.0. Launcher, Bolter, Laser, and Rail gun reduced to 40% DPS/Slot. Laser best charge time reduced by 90% (500 seconds-> 50 seconds) I didn't look much at weapons I don't use end game (Cannons, Pulse guns, Chain guns) But at a glance about 40% of patch 2.0 DPS/Slot Note that I loved the turret seed reroll button. Tech 36 Turret factories only had a slight downgrade (~10-20%% DPS/Slot loss) but I didn't see any good Tesla turrets there either (~30 re-rolls) Overall I would say that the Turret factory downgrades seem too severe for the end game turrets (tech 50).
  5. Some of this probably applies to all Beta 2.0 but I labeled it 2.0.6 as this is the version I ran into these issues The new supply chain automatic moving of goods between stations is a great idea as it removes micro-management and server overhead of tracking all those cargo fighters It could use some adjustment though as two scrap metal factories can't supply enough scrap metal to a steel factory. (Same issue with raw issue to oil refinery) There is plenty of scrap metal at the scrap metal factories (in fact the 20k cargo space is full), it just isn't shipped anywhere near to the quantities needed. Increase the transfer rate by large amount. A low level factory / mine should be able to supply the same number of production runs on the next tier factory with room to spare. Stop shipping after there is enough stored material in the target factory for N runs. I would make N 10 or 20. Auto-fire turrets and defending fighters should ignore all targets that are immune (Pirate bosses, gates etc).
  6. The changes to world mining commands are going to be hard on new players in starting zones as mining ships can't be 100% safe without an escort. As there is a ship limit (resource type used to build a ship) having to send out two ships (one miner one escort) to be safe will make it harder to gain resources in the early game. It would be better to able to reduce the chance of ambush to zero if the ship doing the mining is strong enough. I.e. if the chance for ambush is less than 50% then it can be reduced to zero by 'safe' mining. Note that experienced players won't find this to be as much of a handicap as they can capture ships as soon as they get to Trinium. The new shield subsystem changes that are fixed value make those subsystems somewhat worthless. Most ships that have real shields (size 12+ with 600k to 8 million base shields) adding 150k isn't going to be very appealing. It's better to increase firepower by 5-6 turrets instead. If you find a good one early in the game it could help but long term they are a dead sub-system. The following feedback applies to all version of Avorion. Enemy weapon drops don't match the firepower of the ships that drop them. Killing a 150k DPS enemy ship should award players with high DPS/Slot weapons. Currently the only good mid/end game weapons are created by turret factories. Players can't increase DPS with skills or subsystems so neither should enemy ships. Turret factories would still be important even with better drops as you can customize your weapons and/or get lucky and find an amazing 100+ million cost high dps/slot turret. The fighter changes are playing out well and the cost for them seems correct for how useful/durable they are in battle. Killing the enemy carrier to disable(destroy npc) that carrier's fighters is a good feature. The fighter maximum range of 3.5 is a bit of an issue as it leaves only Tesla weapons as useful for fighters past the barrier. As other weapons systems doing less damage because they are longer range doesn't work out well when they all end up at 3.5k. Straight up reducing fighter weapon range by 50% (or even 67%) would leave more variations for fighters and make non-Tesla fighters viable.
  7. This is after playing both 2.0.3 and 2.0.4. Testing was done freeform with expert level difficulty and 60% enemy damage. Breakage of ship blocks was set at 15%. and a second game at all damage can break a block. The AI legendary subsystem (VI) has a flaw that makes its primary use (fighters) unusable. These fighters do not dodge and it turns out that the primary way for fighters to stay alive is by dodging. The fighter losses when using this device are ~100x greater than using real pilots. I've had 5 squadrons wiped out in one encounter easily (and a second time just to test the theory) compared to using 3 squadrons with real pilots in several battles suffering zero losses. This is all in Xanion space near the barrier. Fighters The 2.0.4 costs to build fighters are fine The fighter ability to get to the target is very good making these a good weapon system. Fighter losses are perhaps a bit low. I would reduce dodging a bit more. Enemy attacks on Stations not in current player sector Automated weapons from stations do not damage/destroy enemy forces. Tested by letting a station with Naonite weapons on auto fight Iron level enemies. The enemies never died even after an hour or so. Moved focus to the station which then destroyed the pirates in a minute. With setting blocks break at setting 0%, enemy attacks on off screen stations broke internal blocks (such as crew quarters that were fully internal). Enemy fire power in the 5-10k DPS range was breaking blocks inside the station that had 40 million hit points. Even when reacting quickly and setting focus to the station's sector the block breakage was done (the station was at full hit points). This same station when the player is present will not suffer any block breakage to internals. Even if the enemy fires at it for extended periods of time. Off screen damage (to your forces when you aren't in that sector) seems to use a random damage hit algorithm instead of actual physics of shooting at the target or there is a bug in the off sector damage code. If it is coded in this simple way I would override the block breakage code so that off sector player targets don't lose blocks until at least 20% damage has been done to them even if the player has set the block breakage lower. This would prevent the strange behavior I observed The reduced enemy shield strength helps reduce the time required to kill pirates while working towards the barrier. This is before building any turrets and just using weapon drops to fight with. Enemy ships that are attempting to jump away due to damage should have to reset their jump time if they are knocked off course (being rammed or hit by heavy weapons) Being able to have a more prominent targeting cursor would be nice. The small white one gets lost in weapons many times for me. Having a setting to have select closest target (and other targeting keybinds) ignore torpedos and fighters would be nice. That's what point defense cannons are for. I just what to select the closest enemy ship. Detected systems (green and yellow) quality of life improvement. Not really a beta issue but would improve the game Once a mass has been detected it remains detected forever. That way there is no need to manually mark each of these which takes player time up. Reduce the green/yellow fade out to only become dimmer and never fade out entirely. That way you can always see the green yellow dots (which I use for navigation).
  8. Ships taking damage are losing weak internal blocks (hull integrity blocks, solar panel blocks) when those blocks are completely enclosed by an outer armored plate system. These blocks are being lost when none of the outer armor blocks are broken. The enemy weapons are not railguns or cannons. This is easy to reproduce by fighting the AI boss ship for example. Larger less fragile blocks are not having this issue. Note all tests are using 'any damage can break a block setting. Is this a bug or intentional? If it is intentional I think the game would be better without this damage leakage. This makes hull tanking weaker if it is intentional and Hull tanking is already weak. Hull tanking is already weak due to no armor being available at the Xanion and Avorion mineral tiers. At the Avorion level this is especially pronounced as it is easy to get ships with shields in the 10 million range which is completely impossible on a ship even with thick Oganite armor. Shields heal much faster than hull (although hull heals in combat it's still not as good as just pulling out of combat for a while to heal your shields) There aren't any subsystems to boost ship hit points.
  9. Stations are expensive and I find that they should have millions of hit points in order to not be destroyed. In Naonite space I use stations with no less than 30 million hit points. With enough engineers to get to 200% repair level a 30 million hitpoint station should be able to tank several 15k ships forever. Add some guns to the station with auto-turrets and it will grind the 15k bounty hunters to dust given enough time. My Avorion stations are 137 million hit points in order to stand up to multiple 200k DPS enemies.
  10. This is the feedback for Beta 2.0.2. This is for a normal playthrough and now past the barrier and in Avorion space. Fighters improvements are very noticable and positive. Costs are back to what they were in 1.0 which feels much better. A 49k Epic DPS Tesla turret (turret construction cost 60 million) cost 25 mil to make into a fighter and each fighter takes 61k Avorion to construct. Time to construct is 50 minutes. Damage for the fighter is 19k DPS with a speed of 600. The production speed might be too fast for this fighter as it will only take a 50k production facility (which is a cost of 50 million) to make that time one minute per fighter. In 1.0 I used 200k production facilities to construct high end fighters. But overall the balance seems close. The responsiveness of the fighters in combat is great. Time to target was short and they were able to keep up with my battleship as it moved around the map. They really feel like fighters now. Given the other improvements I would probably make them less durable now as killing them takes a while. It takes 10 to 30 seconds to kill one enemy fighter during my post battle mop-up against AI carriers (the carriers themselves die in ~5 seconds). Perhaps take away their dodging ability after their parent carrier is dead. AI ship speeds feel better and more in line of how player ships fly. Auto-pilot combat ships seemed very responsive and were able to get to target quickly. Related to this is AI ship facing. I noticed they tend to not face their target which is fine with many AI ships with guns scattered about the ship. I put almost all of the weapons on the front of the ship which makes facing the target the best choice at all times. Could the auto-pilot ships be programmed to face the target if the bulk of the weapons are front facing? This applies to auto-mining as well. New mining system The results are better (closer to 1.0) but part of this is knowing how the system works and getting that message to the players Mining should always be done with a Mining captain as those produce yields almost 2x as much as other captains. It might be even more with higher level captains. Denser (discovered) star systems yield far more resources than sparse / unidentified systems. In other words scout all of the systems in the area you want to mine. This wasn't important back in the 1.0 days so the players need to get this message. Improvements to the Artifacts is welcome and makes them feel like artifacts.
  11. I agree having a 'simple' refine / mine / salvage for a ship on the main map would be nice. Even if the new system is workable (i.e. gives good returns) there would be times just having a targeted command would be useful. Also nice it would be have auto mine / salvage / refine commands end when that resource is consumed.
  12. At this time I would say adding extra fighter bay subsystems is not worth it. Here are the reasons. Orange tier armed turret subsystems give you 6 turrets and 2 defensive turrets (plus some auto-turrets). The same tier fighter subsystem gives 2 more fighter squadrons. Fully equipped it is like having eight turrets which is barely more than the turret subsystem To fill out each squadron will take around 6-12 hours of production. Getting the parts for 6 slots of turrets takes minutes. This is a huge disadvantage to carriers. Note that you can buy fighters but their damage output is so low compared to created turrets/fighters that 12 store purchased fighters don't have the firepower of one turret created at a turret factory. Fighters have difficulty catching the enemies due to the high (AI boosted) ship speeds and with the new 3.5 max range fighter weapons this is even worse. Fighters inherently are more player time consuming to use with launching, targeting, and retrieving after a battle. The ship requires hangers which take up space and in hard games are far more vulnerable to block loss than an fully armored ship. Fighters are easily destroyed by some enemies which target fighters with smaller guns. Maybe this is as much of an issue now with the increased durabilities but due to fighter bugs and not playing on hard in Beta I can't verify their current survivability fully. 2.0.1 Fighter costs are through the roof. A Xanion fighter now costs 110k Xanion (R-Miner 10 DPR). That cost is so high that they are no longer worth producing. That is like a million credits which is starting to get in ship cost range. My 10 slot Heavy Cruiser costs 140k Xanion + 227k Trin to build and 3.4 million credits. The manufacturing cost of the turret that fighter is based on is 3.6 million credits. Give the scarcity of materials in 2.0+ I'd rather just make more turrets and save the minerals for ship / station production. Some numbers for comparison Version 1.0 (118 DPS) 3.98 million Blueprint -> Avorion fighter R-mining cost 11k Avorion (19760 DPS) 4.449 million Blueprint-> 5098 DPS tesla fighter cost 36.6 k Avorion (1043 DPS) 899k million lightning Blueprint -> Fighter costs 17k Xanion (25.8 DPS) 221k Blueprint-> (7.7 DPS) R-Mining Fighter cost 8k Xanion Version 2.0.1 (35.8 DPS) 987 Blueprint -> (10+ DPS)R-Mining fighter costs 114k Xanion (1442) 952 Pulse Cannon BP -> (450+ DPS) Fighter costs 81k Xanion I would suggest increasing the fighter subsystems by a factor of 3 or just remove the need for fighter subsystems. And reduce the fighter costs to 1.0 levels In the version 1.0 of the game I mainly used fighters for killing very specific targets (before I got good turret factory rolls) and for base defense in near the center of the galaxy. With the new restrictions (and torpedos as loot which I can use instead of fighters for specific targets) I will likely have very little use for fighters in Beta 2.0 with the current fighter rules.
  13. Something that has always bothered me is the speed of the NPC (enemy ships). These ships (normal difficulty) have enormous speed boosts. They move way faster than they should and can sustain those speeds for very long periods of time. Destroying engine blocks parts on those ships does not seem to impact their speed. An example was when fighting the smuggler boss where I had destroyed about 2/3rds of his engine blocks and he was still flying at 1500 / ms. Note that if you capture enemy ships they have terrible top speeds (even boosted) and maneuverability. With the new short ranged fighter weapons enemy ships running from the fighters can shoot at the fighters and stay out of fighter weapon range. As fighter top speed is around 600 there is no way to fix this (design wise) as enemy ships in Trin space can easily maintain 800 to 1500 m/s. This is also an issue with player controlled ships as a) they don't tend to head straight for enemy targets and b) they don't use boost to increase their maximum speed (which is the only way manually controlled player ships can keep up with NPC ships). My prefered way to handle this would be to expose the NPC speed boost in the settings so they a player can turn set the actual speed boost NPC ships get.
  14. The tests included the time to refine the minerals (in auto-mode). It takes more player time but still far exceeded the new system results. When you automate tasks for a player you need to make sure the returns of those tasks are enough for the player to want to use them. Currently they are not.
  15. Here is some feedback on the Beta 2.0 changes. I am up to the barrier and am now acquiring the artifacts required to cross it. This is for a normal game. Good: The radar range upgrades are nice as you can see green (owned) sectors further away The new auto-turret system is much better than the old auto-turret system. The ability to position your camera for your ship is a great change as it allows for more ship designs and flying styles. Fighter cost reduction is nice. Not having to add officers to your crew removes confusion and simplifies ship crews without losing the feel of having crews. The new captain abilities are a nice addition. Bad: The mining returns for the new system need adjustments. Tests in Xanion space show a return of around 40k in an hour (safe) which compared to a return of over 700k on auto-pilot is too low by a large margin. The new system could be great due to ease of use but needs returns (on safe) of at least 75% of auto-pilot. These tests were using R-mining lasers. Jump range reduction seems too harsh. Navigating a long distance is very painful now. Hyperspace blocks have no reason (other than Avorion) as they don't give a jump range increase based on my ship building tests. Info/Thoughts Fighters design is a bit more bland as all fighter weapons now have a range of 3.5. I preferred having fighter weapon ranges based on the weapon used to create the fighter. Enemy bounty hunter and pirate attacks on stations seems higher now but only really occurs on starting up the servers. This wouldn't be as big a deal but clearing the enemies away from the stations is painful due to to the short ranged hyperspace jumps. Note that pirates spawning at claimed asteroid stations seems odd regardless. Especially if the Station there is massive and impossible to damage by the pirates (or bounty hunters). The early game is much slower as the cost to get a captain is much higher than before. This is compounded by the short ranged hyperspace jumps. The ship sizes are a bit too small per tier. Trying to clear pirates for the Trin tech upgrade was too hard in a size 6 ship (I just bought that tech upgrade). I would increase all levels by two. Feedback on what being 'ambushed' means would be nice. I have no idea of I just lose the ship or what. Ambush chance should be adjusted by the power level of your ship. I was looking to move (via new auto-system) a ship in Trin space but it had a high ambush chance even though the ship was clearly more powerful than any NPC ship (and faster). Bugs Sometimes after claiming a mine and then switching over to it causes the ship I was in previously to become an enemy (and it charges and attacks the station even with no attack orders). As you now have an enemy in the sector you can't issue use the build system on your new asteroid mine. Fighter squadrons launched from stations sometimes completely disappear. Those stations can not build fighters in the same fight slot after that.
  16. The new system could work but the returns need to be much closer to the amount you can get if you set a ship to mine while in a system with it. Having the new system return 5% to 15% of what the old system/auto in sector mining can do feels bad.
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